Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[Sloan1874]

Just chatting to Scott how to best do this. The first section will be a test run, so to speak, to gauge reaction. If people start trolling or go ott, then it'll have to wait til the end of the month, after sentencing and we're well beyond any hassle. But I get the sense that people really want to know what went on, so I hope we can keep things under control.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Just chatting to Scott how to best do this. The first section will be a test run, so to speak, to gauge reaction. If people start trolling or go ott, then it'll have to wait til the end of the month, after sentencing and we're well beyond any hassle. But I get the sense that people really want to know what went on, so I hope we can keep things under control.

How about just asking for 'please no comments' as part of the topic header..and see if that will work.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

..then another separate thread entitled 'Aero trial comments and responses' might help keep the commentary about the trial in sequence and free of being buried in other member's lengthy discussion.

 

[pawineguy]

How about just asking for 'please no comments' as part of the topic header..and see if that will work.

I think if you do this, the members will be respectful and not add any comments. Most of the interested parties are probably reading this thread now so they are forewarned.

 

[pawineguy]

..then another separate thread entitled 'Aero trial comments and responses' might help keep the commentary about the trial in sequence and free of being buried in other member's lengthy discussion.

+1, because after all we will need an outlet.

 

[tropicalbob]

I'm very much looking forward to it. When can we expect the initial installments? And thanks in advance.

 

[Superfluous]

I'm curious as to whether or not Aero can sue to recover any of the money they've undoubtedly lost because of all this.

I can't speak for the UK, but here in the US, Aero absolutely could initiate a civil action (assuming the statute of limitations had not run). Moreover, the guilty verdict would constitute liability per se, and Aero would not be required to prove WL's wrongdoing.

WL's sentence should include restitution to Aero. Aero may find that sufficient in lieu of a civil judgment (although Aero might be able to recover additional damages by way of a civil action, including possibly punitive damages -- again, I have no idea if punitive damages are available in the UK).

Actually, a question for the legal eagles: could the culprit now name names in return for a reduced sentence? I'm guessing the odd person might be feeling relieved that their collars weren't felt too.

Generally, subordinate co-conspirators give-up their superiors in exchange for reduced sentences. Even if WL had co-conspirators, WL was likely at the top of the food chain and, therefore, I doubt he will get much leniency in exchange for giving up his subordinates.

 

[Sloan1874]

I'm very much looking forward to it. When can we expect the initial installments? And thanks in advance.

First section is written. Scotrace's just asked for a bit of time to work out how best to arrange the thread.

 

[Bunyip]

Look forward to it mate.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Many of us are passionate about Aero and what they have been doing for 30+ years. So why can't we show that passion while discussing something that might have led to their demise? Especially as that something led to a 3 week criminal trial, a conviction and very serious legal consequences for the someone involved.

There’s been a lot of passion about both the companies over the last few years, and a lot more from the partisan supporters of Aero it must be said. But for what it’s worth I reserve my real passion for more important things than clothing. My clothing doesn’t define me in any way as far as I’m concerned. I just wear what I like, and buy from places which make good quality garments at a good price.

I’ve bought from Aero back when Will and Amanda are dealing with things, and later when the Calders took over again. I’ve also bought from AL, and had good jackets from both AL and Aero, and the odd dog from both companies too. Including from the new/old management at Aero just a couple of years ago.

But I would hate to see AL dragged down by this because that would just put even more of an upward pressure on prices. Whether any civil case will involve them I don’t know, but I do know that businesses do try to knock out their competitors if they can so it might. As a customer and not a fan, my favourite current jacket is a beautifully made CXL steer from AL. It was made by the woman who made one of the best Aeros I ever bought a few years before; and it was a good bit cheaper and quicker to be delivered than that Aero too.

As to all the moral outrage from some here, Will has obviously been a bad boy and will have to go and stand in the corner....

But it’s between him and Ken Calder as far as I can see and nothing to do with where I choose to buy my jackets from, and I hope it stays that way.

 

[Sloan1874]

Why not wait until I post the details, instead of trying to second guess them?

 

[Capesofwrath]

Why not wait until I post the details, instead of trying to second guess them?

I’m not second guessing anything, and no civil case has take place as of yet. But since you are so close to Aero maybe you can tell us if one involving AL as opposed to Will Lauder is in the pipeline?

 

[Big J]

I'm interested in the facts of the case.
I think this thread should be closed since its just a cat-fight, *****ing contest full of 'what ifs' of absolutely no significance.

Sloan can write up the details as they came out in court, but any other discussion just seems like a waste of energy, and IMHO is not very dignified.

The matter went to court. Witch-hunts and villagers with pitchforks are so 1800's.

 

[Monitor]

+1 on Big J's comment, and on closing the thread.

I'm with StandBy and Capesofwarth on this - even though I am absolutely fascinated by all of that has been happening and am interested in hearing more about it, fact of the matter is that in reality, none of this really concerns me in any way.

I do want everyone to come out happy out of this, but I certainly don't want to see AL go out of business, even though I'm not very fond of them. People would lose their jobs. That's... not something anyone should look forward to... :/

 

[Sloan1874]

I’m not second guessing anything, and no civil case has take place as of yet. But since you are so close to Aero maybe you can tell us if one involving AL as opposed to Will Lauder is in the pipeline?

I believe that is the case. [huh] Really, to try and untangle Will and his staff from AL, as you'll see, is impossible. It's like baking a cake and then trying to extract the eggs. And just to be clear, I would have reported on this no matter the outcome.

 

[Stand By]

Why it stands out like sore thumb. You are dismissing any other deceptive behavior except for the house full of stolen merchandise. little else matters to you..except that you are bewildered that others seem to want to see more evidence of what was involved in this tangled mess of IH..eBay...Aero and possibly AL and others. Your reasoning continuously comes across as mostly an 'oh well' position as to why anyone would want to know more about 'who, why,and how many entities' were intentionally mislead. The 'so what' consistent argument seems to overpower any concept, on your part, that those who disagree are making any reasonable sense whatsoever.
HD

HD, I am not denying at all that something surreptitious happened - it clearly did and I acknowledged that - but I simply cannot comment with any authority on the events as:
a) I don't spend all day reading ALL of the threads and I said that I have no interest in civilian designs where much of this must get discussed (?), and
b) I wasn't there to know.
So how can I possibly comment and get all hot under the collar when I don't know all the facts or even the people involved? I've never met any of them - I don't know them and they don't know me. I have stated clearly that I don't know anything about eBay jackets or other issues, so if you're sensing ambivalence, it's because I can't get upset over something I know little/nothing about. I have merely commented on the things I feel I can comment on (that my service and jackets from Aero under Will and at AL were exemplary).

And for the record, just in case I'm unclear HD, let me say again (in big red crayon if I could) that stealing is a crime - and crimes get punished. If someone takes a car that isn't theirs and it's worth 200,000 pounds and puts it in their garage, they should expect to get their collar felt by the law and end up in court for it - nobody should get away with that. I hope that is clear enough? I won't repeat myself.

And ultimately, the facts of the case won't affect my choice as to how I, as a customer, order a jacket nor from who in the future.

** I also expressed my sadness for Aero too (do you actually read what people write - or just read things the way you want to read them?) for what they've been through as well. I'm sure it's been a complete trauma for them and are very glad to have this sorry state of affairs behind them once and for all and, going forward, I wish them well. Why wouldn't I? **

It's not a "so what?" attitude; these are very serious matters but between other people. I feel it's a none of my business/not my concern as to how things went down between the two parties engaged in court - and both companies have websites selling their wares and what matters to me is their products, their quality, their costs and service. The who did what to who and why won't have any bearing on that for me as it won't affect the jacket I get.

You see, this is why I'm now regretting even piping up. I knew it was a mistake. I'm supposed to come here to relax. I've no dog in this - as I said - and I'm growing weary of defending myself and addressing flak like this as I NEVER dish out flak. I only ever say anything positive or constructive around here (check any of my posts) and I am always careful observe netiquette and grammar, as the internet - for all it's wonder of communication - is prone to more miscommunication these days than ever before, so I'm careful with what I contribute. I feel that I'm making reasonable sense and cannot make myself clearer.
So I've said all I have to say.

I think I'll sign off and go back to work - and in my spare time, be constructive and work instead on painting Lucky Dog on my ANJ-3. Much more relaxing.
Ciao.

 

[nick123]

HD, I am not denying at all that something surreptitious happened - it clearly did and I acknowledged that - but I simply cannot comment with any authority on the events as:
a) I don't spend all day reading ALL of the threads and I said that I have no interest in civilian designs where much of this must get discussed (?), and
b) I wasn't there to know.
So how can I possibly comment and get all hot under the collar when I don't know all the facts or even the people involved? I've never met any of them - I don't know them and they don't know me. I have stated clearly that I don't know anything about eBay jackets or other issues, so if you're sensing ambivalence, it's because I can't get upset over something I know little/nothing about. I have merely commented on the things I feel I can comment on (that my service and jackets from Aero under Will and at AL were exemplary).

And for the record, just in case I'm unclear HD, let me say again (in big red crayon if I could) that stealing is a crime - and crimes get punished. If someone takes a car that isn't theirs and it's worth 200,000 pounds and puts it in their garage, they should expect to get their collar felt by the law and end up in court for it - nobody should get away with that. I hope that is clear enough? I won't repeat myself.

And ultimately, the facts of the case won't affect my choice as to how I, as a customer, order a jacket nor from who in the future.

** I also expressed my sadness for Aero too (do you actually read what people write - or just read things the way you want to read them?) for what they've been through as well. I'm sure it's been a complete trauma for them and are very glad to have this sorry state of affairs behind them once and for all and, going forward, I wish them well. Why wouldn't I? **

It's not a "so what?" attitude; these are very serious matters but between other people. I feel it's a none of my business/not my concern as to how things went down between the two parties engaged in court - and both companies have websites selling their wares and what matters to me is their products, their quality, their costs and service. The who did what to who and why won't have any bearing on that for me as it won't affect the jacket I get.

You see, this is why I'm now regretting even piping up. I knew it was a mistake. I'm supposed to come here to relax. I've no dog in this - as I said - and I'm growing weary of defending myself and addressing flak like this as I NEVER dish out flak. I only ever say anything positive or constructive around here (check any of my posts) and I am always careful observe netiquette and grammar, as the internet - for all it's wonder of communication - is prone to more miscommunication these days than ever before, so I'm careful with what I contribute. I feel that I'm making reasonable sense and cannot make myself clearer.
So I've said all I have to say.

I think I'll sign off and go back to work - and in my spare time, be constructive and work instead on painting Lucky Dog on my ANJ-3. Much more relaxing.
Ciao.

Stand By, you are the epitome of fairness and sound posts on this board. I'm not defending you, but the fact should be known. There are so many opportunities here to insert snide personal commentary, and I've never seen you act out of line once, or if you have, you're apologetic about it. I pay attention. You're a shining example of how to act on this board.

 

[Big J]

Again, I really think this thread should be closed.
If Sloan's got a report on the court proceedings to offer, I'm sure that would be an interesting read, but in the absence of such a factual report, it's all just speculation, and not very productive. I don't see that any comments are required or helpful without a report of the events at court.

 

[Monitor]

Stand By, you are the epitome of fairness and sound posts on this board. I'm not defending you, but the fact should be known. There are so many opportunities here to insert snide personal commentary, and I've never seen you act out of line once, or if you have, you're apologetic about it. I pay attention. You're a shining example of how to act on this board.

+1! I honestly don't understand how the heck did it come to you having to defend yourself Stand By because, man, your every post so far in this has been a perfect example of the stance each and every one of us should have taken in regards to this entire court business.

Once again, I completely agree with every point you've made and I can only echo what Nick said.

 

[Blackadder]

Having read some of the posts, I think there are those who look strictly at the criminal case which involves stolen jackets, jeans etc from an established company by an individual while there are those who took the view that Aero not only suffered the loss of the physical properties but also the possible loss of confidential information, trade secrets, many skilled employees (not just intellectual properties) to a newcomer because of that same individual. Those could well be subject of a civil suit where remedy could be injunction against all former employees, the newcomer and not just that individual.