Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[Edward]

But if he offers you a leather jacket, I'd have a good close look at it first...

Quick straw poll. I was thinking of starting a thread devoted to the trial detail, just for people to read but not comment, the latter of which can be kept for this thread. How do people feel about this?

Given the impact of these legal proceedings within this particular community, and especially given the rumours, counter-rumours and fractured consumer loyalties that this whole, sorry business has led to in these parts, I would lean to the view that a single thread carrying a clear explanation of the facts of the case would be a useful source of information going forward.

Sounds like a good idea. Will the Calders be commenting, maybe after the sentencing?

I should expect we'll see public statements made by all the key parties in relation to the case in due course. The normal pattern would be for them to hold off until after the sentencing (in part owing to contempt of court laws in the UK; these proceedings are still 'active' until sentence is passed, and as such care needs to be exercised about the expression of opinions in relation to the facts).

Sloan, I agree that a separate thread, where only you can manage the content would be great.
Other than your own time limits, are there any legal reasons this couldn't be started asap?

The only real limitations here are those imposed by the Contempt of Court Act 1981. While the case remains 'active' (proceedings are 'active' from the point of arrest until the point of sentencing), it is a criminal offence to publish anything which poses a "substantial risk of serious prejudice" to the impartiality of the proceedings. This is a strict liability offence (there still also exists a separat,e common law offence of intentional contempt, but this is rarely prosecuted). Given that TFL has been named more than once during these proceedings, it's wise for the forum to exercise a bit of caution here. In particular, the legal position in relation to potential future actions (appeals, other prosecutions, civil cases...) is murky, but as the caselaw currently sits, anything uploaded next month, when proceedings are no longer active, can be considered to be 'published' anew each time it is downloaded and read - including years from now, when new proceedings have since become active. The best way to avoid any legal problems for the forum is to have a simple record of the facts, with caution exercised in relation to opinions being expressed. Sloan, obviously, has been well briefed on the legalities of it all, so knows what he's doing. His non-sensational report of the details of the trial would, in my view, be a welcome means of putting to bed a large proportion of the speculation of recent years.

 

[Two Types]

Scottish prisons really aren't like that.

Exactly. One of my friends was a nurse at Barlinnie. She described it as a place filled with rather sad, rather desperate drug addicts and plenty of seriously violent men. Nothing cushy about it at all and a place that is best avoided at all costs.

 

[Sloan1874]

Any idea on when Aero can reclaim their property? I'm beginning to see a light at the end of this tunnel. Something about a sale?

Property is sitting in the factory. Police couldn't manage it - apparently it filled the whole of a transit van, floor-to-roof, and took the cops all day to retrieve from WL's house.

 

[Sloan1874]

Sloan, obviously, has been well briefed on the legalities of it all, so knows what he's doing. His non-sensational report of the details of the trial would, in my view, be a welcome means of putting to bed a large proportion of the speculation of recent years.

*scraps National Inquirer-style piece* Dang.

 

[Otter]

*scraps National Inquirer-style piece* Dang.

Wot, no "Missing Jackets Found On Moon." or perhaps "Gotcha!"

 

[Monitor]

I'm all down with the separate dedicated trial thread!

Police couldn't manage it - apparently it filled the whole of a transit van, floor-to-roof, and took the cops all day to retrieve from WL's house.

lol this sounds so serious without a context.

 

[Edward]

*scraps National Inquirer-style piece* Dang.

:lol:

Wot, no "Missing Jackets Found On Moon." or perhaps "Gotcha!"

"Gotcha!" is already over.... the Sun did it in '82, and Private Eye parodied it within the last couple of years, so. I'm sure "Rejoice! Rejoice!" would be plenty inflammatory here as ever it has been!

 

[I would go out tonight]

Freddie Starr ate my Hamster hide jacket.*

*Well, they told me it was Hamster, now I am not so sure

 

[Otter]

LOL :eusa_clap

For confused foreigners, those are all (in)famous British tabloid headlines.

 

[rocketeer]

LOL :eusa_clap

For confused foreigners, those are all (in)famous British tabloid headlines.

Dont forget Sunday Sport! "WWII Bomber Found on Moon" Guess that is where the missing jackets came from

 

[Monitor]

It could've been worse. Donkeys could've done it.

 

[Otter]

It could've been worse. Donkeys could've done it.

Eeyore hide jacket or is it a reference to the classic comedy series "Drop the Dead Donkey" ?

 

[Monitor]

Eeyore hide jacket or is it a reference to the classic comedy series "Drop the Dead Donkey" ?

Nope, just my favourite headline ever.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think these most recent posts perfectly illustrate just why a 'facts only' closed thread is sorely needed.....lol

 

[Otter]

I think these most recent posts perfectly illustrate just why a 'facts only' closed thread is sorely needed.....lol

"Just the facts Mam" or "The truth!......You can't handle the truth!!!!"

 

[Two Types]

Or as Keith Moon said: "The truth? ... You can't afford the truth."

 

[Stand By]

As I Would Go Out Tonight has noted, some of the regular faces - like me - have been conspicuous in our absence on this topic, and I'll go on the record here to say that I come here to relax (alternatively I could be reading up on the news/geo-politics/UK and Ontario politics and be depressed instead after all) and make a general point of only chiming in if I have a) anything positive or b) constructive to say or contribute.

So that said, as pointed out earlier, I would agree that there does seem to me to be a degree of partisanship over the whole Aero versus AL topic and I find the glee that has sometimes been expressed to be distasteful. It's as though some people have an actual vested interest in these companies, when as customers only, they don't.
In this life, I take people as I find them - note, as I find them - and Will was nothing but great with me and was part of the reason that my otherwise then-total loyalty with ELC was broken and I went with Aero for my ANJ-3 and C-3 and immensely happy I was/am - and he/they did some stellar repair and alteration work for me.
So I've nothing but good to say about him as he was a part of that and that was my experience.

Later the company divided and all the acrimony came out here and I simply hated it as I found it very toxic and a complete turn-off. It's not why I come here. Some people seemed more well-informed than others and it always left me bemused with the innuendo and how they'd seemingly know more than everyone else - and yet, I never cared for any of it.
All I know is (as it's been discussed here), as Garzo stated, Will left Aero and a whole raft of employees left en masse with him. That's an obvious act of loyalty to him - to risk your livelihood (that puts food on the table, pays the mortgage and bills, car payments etc) and to take an unknown chance elsewhere - so one could wonder what that was all about …?

BUT - as then as now, I consider it none of my business. What went on between Will and his former bosses and all the associated staff was a STRICTLY INTERNAL MATTER for them as it doesn't affect me/us. Where I come from, that's called minding somebody else's business. (So no thank you, Sloan. I don't care what was said in court and what the in's and out's were. Thanks for asking though).

I have no dog in any of this.
I dealt with Will when he was there at then-Aero and can say that dealing with then-Aero was a pleasure and was a prime example of how to win a customer away from the competition - and when he was at AL they did some stellar repair and alteration work for me and I'd gladly order from AL in future too.
The storse-thing didn't affect me and I don't know how I'd feel about it as I'd need to see and feel and try on one of those jackets to make up my own mind about it - I followed the thread quietly and know that many people were happy regardless. Sure, they didn't get what they thought they'd ordered and that's a breach-of-trust and it's a bad state of affairs, but would I care if it was my jacket? I simply don't know (I may have liked it regardless too) so cannot comment (which is why I haven't).
I don't know anything about eBay jackets other than what I've read here. What his motivations could have been be for stashing stuff in his house (that was very wrong of him and dumb and utterly indefensible), one would have to ask him - but still, no matter what he said, it wouldn't matter to me either way. That'd be his concern - and they aren't my own and it wouldn't affect my future custom from either Aero or AL.
What matters to me is that I get a great jacket at a reasonable price and good service.

What also matters to me is that I really like to see small specialty businesses both in business and thriving - especially in places like Scotland (where the UK economy is still navigating some very troubled waters, no matter what the politicians may be saying to the contrary in the final home straight to the election); as I stated on a thread elsewhere very recently, I don't like to buy anything from China if it all possible and am happy to pay more for quality items made in the USA, Canada or UK, and it matters that small niche companies like Aero, ELC, AL, Aces High etc all do well and we support them. We have just seen the demise of RMNZ and I'd hate to think that the fallout from this could hurt AL too as that hurts everyone. It hurts their employees and it hurts us as customers.

So I only regard this story with sadness - I think it's sad for Will and his reputation, his family, his employees, his customers, Aero (the Calder family) and all the acrimony that went before - I see no cause for glee nor gloating around here - I think it's sad for everyone that anything like this has happened to what we're all so passionate about and I hope everyone can just move on and we can once again happily focus on the jackets - and not what went on behind closed doors where they were made.

 

[Jägernaut]

Will dealt with the public and swindled the public. His treachery as far as i'm concerned is public domain. Doing some or most people right does not absolve him of the wrongs he committed. He is a wretched individual and will receive no pity from me.

 

[Edward]

Everyone is, naturally, entitled to their opinion (and, of course, all should be careful how they express it this side of sentencing). That the case be a matter of public discussion in a place like this is, of course, inevitable. As a matter of law, its discussion would certainly satisfy any public interest test that it could be measured against. I'm sure all parties affected will release statements in due course, and with all the facts out in the open things will move on in their own time.

 

[breezer]

this brings to mind the classic 'he seemed like a nice guy'