Show Us Your OVERCOATS

[Aloysius]

Dear Simon

It has been brought to my attention by my clients and colleagues on Savile Row that you have made several negative remarks about me on your website relating to a shooting suit that was made for you during my time as the senior cutter at Huntsman. Your comments, not your original article, that actually complimented your experience, are sadly devoid of technical accuracy and instead offer misleading information.

For the avoidance of doubt and clarity, when you were given the free suit back in 2010 you were specifically and correctly asked by myself, on more than one occasion in the presence of Peter Smith, the general manager and Jonnie Alan the sales manager, if you would be using the garment for shooting. The role of the cutter is to gather as much information as he can prior to the commencement of cutting a suit, especially a shooting suit. You responded to say you would indeed be using the suit for shooting. A shooting suit is a highly technical, functioning, garment and my record for cutting them is exemplary. Additionally, the tailor who made the piece is one of the best on Savile Row and is a highly respected individual.

In relation to the check at the half belt that didn’t match, you actually correctly pointed out the following in your original article, dated 30th March 2011.

“On stock examples of this cloth in the Huntsman shop the collar matches but the belt does not – indeed, the difference at the belt is even more pronounced than on my version, as they are made with a greater drop between chest and waist”.

Yet you, unfortunately, persisted with the following remark at a later date on your website?

“I finally had my Huntsman jacket fixed last week, after David Ward had failed to match the checks originally, either at the belt or collar”.

In spite of your own observations about (no) half belts matching on stock items in the front shop at Huntsman, you continued in making false and inaccurate remarks about my failure to attend to this aspect of the shooting jacket. For the sake of clarity for you and your readers, it is impossible to match a half belt with a bold check at the small of the back when a centre seem is present, as the suppression in the centre back seam distorts the pattern. You might get away with adding a seam in the belt or shrinking or stretching the cloth, but that’s not the correct way of doing things on Savile Row. That’s factual information.

During the fittings, you commented on several occasions that you additionally wanted shape to be present in the garment. Therefore, under your instruction, the garment was also cut with the Huntsman silhouette for your aesthetic requirements. This is something rarely asked by a client intending to use such a garment for the purposes of shooting. Your comments in the same original article corroborate my execution of your style requests and even reference the mismatch of the check.

“It was certainly right to improve the fit at the expense of the pattern matching. The fit of a bespoke jacket should always be the priority, and I think you can see from the clean finish to the back that the fit was very good”.

Regarding the collar not fitting. You were informed by me during the final fitting, that as you had clarified your intent to actually shoot with the suit and felt you wanted a slightly bigger cross back, I explained I would need to let out the centre back to solve this, rather than cut a new back, which we would normally do for a paying client if requested. Therefore, the check on the top collar and back neck were slightly out to accommodate this.

There are many nuances of a shooting garments aesthetic and fit, that are sometimes overlooked to enhance functionality when used in synergy with a loaded *****. When a client has paid in excess of a £100,000 for a *** at Purdy’s or Boss, they value function over style and shooting suits are fitted accordingly. Therefore, It was decided by the then owners of Huntsman that we would not cut a new back to a free suit that would normally cost close to £10,000 on completion. If you felt that this was unfair then it would have been maybe constructive if you had made your reservations with the Huntsman management, who also felt that I had carried out my work to my usual exceptional standards. The photographs of the finished suit in your original article show this. The fact that you have then chosen to personally defame my reputation years later with spurious wording due to their inaccuracies, is, I feel, incredibly poor.

As recently as April 2016 you offered the following in response to someone on your forum asking what I was like, but instead your reply referenced the shooting jacket once again?

“I haven’t seen him for years, but I can’t really recommend him given his cutting of my Huntsman tweed jacket (see posts on that)”.

I’m sure you are aware of the problems the industry has in trying to keep traditional tailors within its boundaries and the natural environment of Savile Row. Therefore, the presence of myself as an independent tailor, who is part of an unnoticeable trend at the moment, should be endorsed rather referred to with specious remarks. It is also a shame that you have offered your inaccuracies on a site that is noted as a resource for sound information about menswear.

You have noted there were a few things that needed looking at on one of the *** pleats. As you are aware, with every bespoke order a client is encouraged to wear a garment and bring it back if need be. Your experience of bringing the garment back to Huntsman for tweaking at a later date was the norm, rather than the exception. My contact details are published online and I would have been happy to discuss the issues with you over a coffee (or something stronger), which might have helped to resolve or maybe even enhance your review.


Respectfully


David Ward

Huntsman made him an incredible three piece tweed half-belt suit for free that anyone on the outerwear or suits sides of TFL would gladly own, but Simon is clueless about tailoring so he has been going on for the 14 years since on his blog about how the cutter was clueless because the checks don't match (as you can see in the photo, they're perfectly symmetrical; this is not a mistake but the best solution!)

Mr Ward (who was senior cutter at Poole, where he also cultivated a strong clientele in Japan, and Huntsman as well as head cutter at Norton) is now trading as an independent tailor should anyone wish to explore his services. He has a fun Instagram where he posts beautiful works in progress and highlights some of the unsung heroes of tailoring (the tailors in the workshops who aren't front-facing like cutters and the like).

 

[Doctor Damage]

^ I have thoughts but this isn't the thread so we'll stick to overcoats. But yeah, thanks for posting. That rebuttal was amazing stuff!!

 

[Doctor Damage]

Not technically an overcoat I guess, but we don't have an Inverness cape thread, so...

 

[Ent]

If you want compliments walking to work wear an overcoat, gloves and hat so I have found.

 

[Doctor Damage]

^ most excellent polo coat! looks great!
thanks for posting the pics

 

[Ent]

^ most excellent polo coat! looks great!
thanks for posting the pics

Hi Doctor Damage.

Thanks for your kind words. It is from Hockerty in 80/20 alpaca/wool blend they kindly made in an extra long length to suit my 6’3” frame.

 

[Rick Dalton]

​

is this brand and model any good?

 

[Doctor Damage]

​

is this brand and model any good?
View attachment 723179

It looks to be an old coat from an old clothier, which probably no longer exists, and even if it did doesn't sell stuff like that anymore. Does the coat fit you well? Is it well made? Does it keep you warm? If you answered "yes" three times then it doesn't matter if it's a respected brand, etc. Just enjoy it!

 

[mcnuonuo]

​

is this brand and model any good?
View attachment 723179
View attachment 723180

It looks great by itself to me I would wear it happily if I have it and it fits.

The brand doesn't matter much as long as you can interpret it as good material and construction, I think.

 

[Ent]

A Hockerty 80/20 Alpaca/wool blend made MTM extra long by requested.

 

[Edward]

View attachment 710776

Huntsman made him an incredible three piece tweed half-belt suit for free that anyone on the outerwear or suits sides of TFL would gladly own, but Simon is clueless about tailoring so he has been going on for the 14 years since on his blog about how the cutter was clueless because the checks don't match (as you can see in the photo, they're perfectly symmetrical; this is not a mistake but the best solution!)

Mr Ward (who was senior cutter at Poole, where he also cultivated a strong clientele in Japan, and Huntsman as well as head cutter at Norton) is now trading as an independent tailor should anyone wish to explore his services. He has a fun Instagram where he posts beautiful works in progress and highlights some of the unsung heroes of tailoring (the tailors in the workshops who aren't front-facing like cutters and the like).

Oh, that's wonderful. I can smell the sting of the venom from here... Unsurprisingly so. Can you imagine putting in that amount of work, for free, for some Philistine to whine about it? ("Yes, Yes I can." says anyone who ever worked out Your Favourite Custom Leather Jacket supplier ). I'll bet (the obvious technicalities aside that he lists) there are circles where they seek out the half-belt to be just "off" like that so as to enhpasise that they've had that detail done. You know, like the sort of guys who I've seen on Reddit asking if others wear their working cuffs unbuttons so that people can see they're "real".

Not technically an overcoat I guess, but we don't have an Inverness cape thread, so...

View attachment 718981

Nice. I'm somewhat tempted by the idea of an Inverness. I don't see me wearing it often, but they look just right with a kilt and full rig. Popular with Pipers, of course, with the obvious freedom of movement they allow the arms. I'd love to take up the pipes, though a Higher Power had decreed this would not be an approved pastime. (The Higher Power would be my English Wife.)

If you want compliments walking to work wear an overcoat, gloves and hat so I have found.

View attachment 718990 View attachment 718991

Great scarf! Love the colours, reminds me of a later one worn by Tom Baker in his final season as Doctor Who.

 

[Aloysius]

Oh, that's wonderful. I can smell the sting of the venom from here... Unsurprisingly so. Can you imagine putting in that amount of work, for free, for some Philistine to whine about it? ("Yes, Yes I can." says anyone who ever worked out Your Favourite Custom Leather Jacket supplier ). I'll bet (the obvious technicalities aside that he lists) there are circles where they seek out the half-belt to be just "off" like that so as to enhpasise that they've had that detail done. You know, like the sort of guys who I've seen on Reddit asking if others wear their working cuffs unbuttons so that people can see they're "real".

My favourite bit was when the tailor wryly noted that outdoorsmen who spend a fortune on a custom *** would rather the visuals of the jacket be compromised (such as not doing the sharp city suit type silhouette or having perfect matching) than have the pattern compromised for actual use.

I do have an on topic update!

Recently bought the RL camelhair polo coat, for the third time. (Ordered it once over eight years ago, but it arrived missing a button so I sent it back, then ordered it in a sale last year, only for it to turn out being out of stock for the year, then this year I caught it on deep sale and it was available!)

Ralph Lauren's version (being the eponymous garment of the company) has always been a pretty meticulous take on the common midcentury version. I would expect J. Press and O'Connell's do similarly.

Quite a few makers purport to make a 'polo coat' but they introduce updates that compromise the essence of what the coat is. The most common of these seems to be bringing up the buttoning point to make it look more formal, but in doing so it defeats the relaxed and versatile nature of the coat.

There's a great photo of the OP of this thread wearing his vintage polo coat:

The RL example captures this silhouette well (actually it may even have been Marc who suggested I look at the RL version on the TFL group page many years ago), as you can see on Ralph himself:

In contrast, 'upgraded' editions like the Anthology model (which, to be clear, is a beautiful coat with a lot of handwork) don't seem like polo coats to me.

The trimness and neater buttoning push it into a different zone. I think this shape would be better suited to a navy melton or some other cloth that would not be confused with a polo coat, because it feels a bit neither here nor there. I'm sure the cloth is lovely, but the silhouette does not match its casual nature. I do appreciate that they went for a plump swelled edge, which some of the other fancier models forego.

Paradoxically I think the dressier changes make it less versatile for both dressing down and up. Down for the reasons I mentioned, and up because wearing a slouchy polo coat over formalwear is a very deliberate and dandyish move, whereas wearing a rather neat overcoat that happens to be camel just seems confused.

The Ulster collar is not an issue because look lovely on polo coats, as modelled by Noël Coward in the Thirties:

 

[Edward]

My favourite bit was when the tailor wryly noted that outdoorsmen who spend a fortune on a custom *** would rather the visuals of the jacket be compromised (such as not doing the sharp city suit type silhouette or having perfect matching) than have the pattern compromised for actual use.

I do have an on topic update!

Recently bought the RL camelhair polo coat, for the third time. (Ordered it once over eight years ago, but it arrived missing a button so I sent it back, then ordered it in a sale last year, only for it to turn out being out of stock for the year, then this year I caught it on deep sale and it was available!)

Ralph Lauren's version (being the eponymous garment of the company) has always been a pretty meticulous take on the common midcentury version. I would expect J. Press and O'Connell's do similarly.

Quite a few makers purport to make a 'polo coat' but they introduce updates that compromise the essence of what the coat is. The most common of these seems to be bringing up the buttoning point to make it look more formal, but in doing so it defeats the relaxed and versatile nature of the coat.

There's a great photo of the OP of this thread wearing his vintage polo coat:

View attachment 733692

The RL example captures this silhouette well (actually it may even have been Marc who suggested I look at the RL version on the TFL group page many years ago), as you can see on Ralph himself:

View attachment 733693

In contrast, 'upgraded' editions like the Anthology model (which, to be clear, is a beautiful coat with a lot of handwork) don't seem like polo coats to me.

View attachment 733694

The trimness and neater buttoning push it into a different zone. I think this shape would be better suited to a navy melton or some other cloth that would not be confused with a polo coat, because it feels a bit neither here nor there. I'm sure the cloth is lovely, but the silhouette does not match its casual nature. I do appreciate that they went for a plump swelled edge, which some of the other fancier models forego.

Paradoxically I think the dressier changes make it less versatile for both dressing down and up. Down for the reasons I mentioned, and up because wearing a slouchy polo coat over formalwear is a very deliberate and dandyish move, whereas wearing a rather neat overcoat that happens to be camel just seems confused.

The Ulster collar is not an issue because look lovely on polo coats, as modelled by Noël Coward in the Thirties:

View attachment 733695

It drives me up the wall when I keep reading descriptions like "Inspired by.....(but we've made it longer and trimmer and totally ruined the whole point of the original design)".

 

[Rick Dalton]

My favourite bit was when the tailor wryly noted that outdoorsmen who spend a fortune on a custom *** would rather the visuals of the jacket be compromised (such as not doing the sharp city suit type silhouette or having perfect matching) than have the pattern compromised for actual use.

I do have an on topic update!

Recently bought the RL camelhair polo coat, for the third time. (Ordered it once over eight years ago, but it arrived missing a button so I sent it back, then ordered it in a sale last year, only for it to turn out being out of stock for the year, then this year I caught it on deep sale and it was available!)

Ralph Lauren's version (being the eponymous garment of the company) has always been a pretty meticulous take on the common midcentury version. I would expect J. Press and O'Connell's do similarly.

Quite a few makers purport to make a 'polo coat' but they introduce updates that compromise the essence of what the coat is. The most common of these seems to be bringing up the buttoning point to make it look more formal, but in doing so it defeats the relaxed and versatile nature of the coat.

There's a great photo of the OP of this thread wearing his vintage polo coat:

View attachment 733692

The RL example captures this silhouette well (actually it may even have been Marc who suggested I look at the RL version on the TFL group page many years ago), as you can see on Ralph himself:

View attachment 733693

In contrast, 'upgraded' editions like the Anthology model (which, to be clear, is a beautiful coat with a lot of handwork) don't seem like polo coats to me.

View attachment 733694

The trimness and neater buttoning push it into a different zone. I think this shape would be better suited to a navy melton or some other cloth that would not be confused with a polo coat, because it feels a bit neither here nor there. I'm sure the cloth is lovely, but the silhouette does not match its casual nature. I do appreciate that they went for a plump swelled edge, which some of the other fancier models forego.

Paradoxically I think the dressier changes make it less versatile for both dressing down and up. Down for the reasons I mentioned, and up because wearing a slouchy polo coat over formalwear is a very deliberate and dandyish move, whereas wearing a rather neat overcoat that happens to be camel just seems confused.

The Ulster collar is not an issue because look lovely on polo coats, as modelled by Noël Coward in the Thirties:

View attachment 733695

Amazing – I’ve been really inspired by this coat style lately and I’m wondering: is it possible to find something like this second-hand/used? If so, what approach would you recommend — maybe some specific search phrases, keywords, or platforms?


I’m new to coats, I recently bought a Korean cashmere/wool blend coat that tries to capture this style, but it doesn’t quite get there. So now I’d love to learn how people usually track down the real deal.


Any tips from experienced coat hunters would be hugely appreciated

 

[Aloysius]

Amazing – I’ve been really inspired by this coat style lately and I’m wondering: is it possible to find something like this second-hand/used? If so, what approach would you recommend — maybe some specific search phrases, keywords, or platforms?


I’m new to coats, I recently bought a Korean cashmere/wool blend coat that tries to capture this style, but it doesn’t quite get there. So now I’d love to learn how people usually track down the real deal.


Any tips from experienced coat hunters would be hugely appreciated

Polo coat would be an obvious starting point, though that might just bring up a lot of random Ralph Lauren, so perhaps adding "camel" or "camelhair" would help narrow it down. More general terms like camel overcoat would also be useful. In any case it will be important to look at the silhouette and see if it actually has the relaxed shape and effect of a polo coat, rather than being a dressy coat. Wool/camelhair 50/50 blends are a good combination of durability and soft hand, though whether a blend or pure camel, make sure to inspect for moth holes.

Since they used to be such a staple part of American and English style for a few decades, many many makers made them. The best deals will be from smaller makers who no longer exist (so people wouldn't be searching for them as a brand, though you might be able to find some references to whatever old shop it is on a forum like this), many of which were based in university towns. Of course, you might also be able to score a version from one of the known university outfitters like J. Press (Yale) or the Andover Shop (Harvard) or Langrock (Princeton).

EDIT: Absentmindedly wrote 'centuries' in place of decades.

 

[Rick Dalton]

Polo coat would be an obvious starting point, though that might just bring up a lot of random Ralph Lauren, so perhaps adding "camel" or "camelhair" would help narrow it down. More general terms like camel overcoat would also be useful. In any case it will be important to look at the silhouette and see if it actually has the relaxed shape and effect of a polo coat, rather than being a dressy coat. Wool/camelhair 50/50 blends are a good combination of durability and soft hand, though whether a blend or pure camel, make sure to inspect for moth holes.

Since they used to be such a staple part of American and English style for a few centuries, many many makers made them. The best deals will be from smaller makers who no longer exist (so people wouldn't be searching for them as a brand, though you might be able to find some references to whatever old shop it is on a forum like this), many of which were based in university towns. Of course, you might also be able to score a version from one of the known university outfitters like J. Press (Yale) or the Andover Shop (Harvard) or Langrock (Princeton).

Thank you so much!

 

[Doctor Damage]

Polo coat would be an obvious starting point, though that might just bring up a lot of random Ralph Lauren, so perhaps adding "camel" or "camelhair" would help narrow it down. More general terms like camel overcoat would also be useful. In any case it will be important to look at the silhouette and see if it actually has the relaxed shape and effect of a polo coat, rather than being a dressy coat. Wool/camelhair 50/50 blends are a good combination of durability and soft hand, though whether a blend or pure camel, make sure to inspect for moth holes.

100% endorse everything said in this post, exactly my experience.

 

[AHP91]

Looking for a second or third opinion on this overcoat - looks to be 30s 40s era with the union tag - some minor distressing, can be had for like 125. Yay or nay?

 

[ontz]

Bawden overcoat from Thomas Farthing, which I'm wearing a lot these days. Layered over a thick merino sweater. I've gained too much weight this past year so it's a bit more snug than I'd like but I love how well it adapts to the -5 +5 Celsius range.

Sadly the cotton lining in the pockets is ripping at the seams, which I'm a bit miffed about seeing as it's only my second winter wearing it. Otherwise it's been great.

 

[Doctor Damage]

^ looks warm!! thnaks for posting