How to distinguish quality fedoras from the others?

[belfastboy]

That's great!

An inquiry though, besides the aforementioned brands, what other brands would you recommend?

Another inquiry, do you think Thomas Farthing makes good hats?

It is not usually a question of "good"...it is a question of value for money. For the money you have resign yourself to the fact you will get a low quality hat. That is reality. In a general sense, mass produced hats are not great.....they are made to hit a price point, likely use low grade components. You don't have enough money for a fur felt hat from them. Wool hats are a waste of your money. They look cheap, don't last, and quickly look terrible. The world of hats is too large and I don't have the time to give you a breakdown on the market. Just realize that for 200euro you will get a low end hat. Is that what you want?

 

[Marston11]

It is not usually a question of "good"...it is a question of value for money. For the money you have resign yourself to the fact you will get a low quality hat. That is reality. In a general sense, mass produced hats are not great.....they are made to hit a price point, likely use low grade components. You don't have enough money for a fur felt hat from them. Wool hats are a waste of your money. They look cheap, don't last, and quickly look terrible. The world of hats is too large and I don't have the time to give you a breakdown on the market. Just realize that for 200euro you will get a low end hat. Is that what you want?

No sir...
Why should you be so cruel....

Jokes aside, I will see what I could do. Thank you very much for giving it to me straight.

Also forget the 200 euros, that was but a reference point to test the waters. I do not know the riches I will get tomorrow or the day later. I just asked if I could get good hats from there? Who knows, maybe I'll hit a bargain, maybe I'll pay enough to put 15 people in retirement. Possibilities are endless.

 

[jlee562]

As the focus of the lounge is primarily vintage, worth noting that vintage factory hats are not the same as modern factory hats. I will take a (Philadelphia) factory made Stetson over a modern custom most days of the week. Of course not all vintage hats are automatically spectacular, they made cheaper hats back then too. But for the qualities I look for in felt, even the lower Stetson grades like Royal or No. 1 Quality, IMHO, are preferable to a modern rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend.

 

[belfastboy]

As the focus of the lounge is primarily vintage, worth noting that vintage factory hats are not the same as modern factory hats. I will take a (Philadelphia) factory made Stetson over a modern custom most days of the week. Of course not all vintage hats are automatically spectacular, they made cheaper hats back then too. But for the qualities I look for in felt, even the lower Stetson grades like Royal or No. 1 Quality, IMHO, are preferable to a modern rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend.

I agree but for a newbie, entering into the vintage market,it is fraught with risk. Yes, you can get lucky but my experience the risk is kissing a frog or two before you find the prince.

 

[jlee562]

I agree but for a newbie, entering into the vintage market,it is fraught with risk. Yes, you can get lucky but my experience the risk is kissing a frog or two before you find the prince.

...which is presumably why our new friend is asking for advice. But you "don't have the time." Silly me, I keep thinking people are here to actually talk about vintage hats.

But I will offer a response that doesn't wholesale throw out vintage hats with the bath water, so to speak.

At the most plain level, manufacturers have quality grades. Without consideration to style, all other things being equal, a Royal Deluxe is "nicer" than a Royal quality hat. Now, the reality as folks in 2026 handling vintage objects, is that whatever the difference is, it's not necessarily readily apparent to modern eyes. I couldn't explain objectively why the Deluxe was actually deluxe (though I presume it was the felt blend and/or weight). But taken for face value, Imperial quality is higher quality than Sovereign, 7x is higher than 3x, etc (this of course varies over time). I mostly know Stetson, someone else could probably better explain the Qualita Superiore etc of Borsalino and other manufacturers.

Consequently, I've always stuck to the major brands. I've seen Penney's Marathon hats that I like the styling of, but let's be honest, that was a lower cost product aimed at a different segment of the market. Which is not to disparage Marathon hats at large, just that if one was seeking the highest quality, the store brands were generally not the pinnacle.

One of the easier red flags is the sweatband. For US hats, the black sweat band widely adopted in the 70's and 80's signals that the hat is not from the heyday of manufacturing. One of the hats that passed through my hands was a Bush hat co "The Superior Hat" Dakota model, their take on the Stetson. The sweatband was not quite as thick and was a lot more flimsy than say, my Boss Raw Edge. You don't want to see any cracking or dry leather.

If you're shopping in person at a vintage shop, pay attention to the smoothness of the felt. This is something you'll just have to learn from experience, but going back to the aforementioned Dakota, that was noticeably more coarse than the Stetson felt as well. If you can get your hands on a modern Akubra and a modern Stetson, this would also be illustrative of the difference. Akubra has made the tradeoff of spending less time and effort on finishing in order to keep the retail prices lower.

Other red flags include moth holes/divots. I just avoid these hats altogether as best I can. If the liner is dirty, the hat is probably dirtier than it appears. If the liner is glued in, that's either a relatively modern hat, or a cheaply made vintage hat.

As far as custom makers, not all are created equal. Some have blocking machines, hydraulic brim presses, and a library of vintage blocks. Some are a guy in their garage with a steam iron and some jury rigged tooling. It's a bit harder to tell online from pics, but be aware of how the sweatband is seated and where the reed is. Sweatbands are actually slightly convex and the reed should 'bell' outward. Pay attention to ribbon work. There are some haters that have kinda puffy bows that don't lay flat, and those don't look right to me. Many hatters have now gotten access to felts from FEPSA in Portugal, these are pre finished hat bodies which removes the finishing variable, but some hatters are very experienced in the finer points of hat finishing (Bob from Black Sheep Hat works comes to mind particularly).

 

[Adman256]

...which is presumably why our new friend is asking for advice. But you "don't have the time." Silly me, I keep thinking people are here to actually talk about vintage hats.

But I will offer a response that doesn't wholesale throw out vintage hats with the bath water, so to speak.

At the most plain level, manufacturers have quality grades. Without consideration to style, all other things being equal, a Royal Deluxe is "nicer" than a Royal quality hat. Now, the reality as folks in 2026 handling vintage objects, is that whatever the difference is, it's not necessarily readily apparent to modern eyes. I couldn't explain objectively why the Deluxe was actually deluxe (though I presume it was the felt blend and/or weight). But taken for face value, Imperial quality is higher quality than Sovereign, 7x is higher than 3x, etc (this of course varies over time). I mostly know Stetson, someone else could probably better explain the Qualita Superiore etc of Borsalino and other manufacturers.

Consequently, I've always stuck to the major brands. I've seen Penney's Marathon hats that I like the styling of, but let's be honest, that was a lower cost product aimed at a different segment of the market. Which is not to disparage Marathon hats at large, just that if one was seeking the highest quality, the store brands were generally not the pinnacle.

One of the easier red flags is the sweatband. For US hats, the black sweat band widely adopted in the 70's and 80's signals that the hat is not from the heyday of manufacturing. One of the hats that passed through my hands was a Bush hat co "The Superior Hat" Dakota model, their take on the Stetson. The sweatband was not quite as thick and was a lot more flimsy than say, my Boss Raw Edge. You don't want to see any cracking or dry leather.

If you're shopping in person at a vintage shop, pay attention to the smoothness of the felt. This is something you'll just have to learn from experience, but going back to the aforementioned Dakota, that was noticeably more coarse than the Stetson felt as well. If you can get your hands on a modern Akubra and a modern Stetson, this would also be illustrative of the difference. Akubra has made the tradeoff of spending less time and effort on finishing in order to keep the retail prices lower.

Other red flags include moth holes/divots. I just avoid these hats altogether as best I can. If the liner is dirty, the hat is probably dirtier than it appears. If the liner is glued in, that's either a relatively modern hat, or a cheaply made vintage hat.

As far as custom makers, not all are created equal. Some have blocking machines, hydraulic brim presses, and a library of vintage blocks. Some are a guy in their garage with a steam iron and some jury rigged tooling. It's a bit harder to tell online from pics, but be aware of how the sweatband is seated and where the reed is. Sweatbands are actually slightly convex and the reed should 'bell' outward. Pay attention to ribbon work. There are some haters that have kinda puffy bows that don't lay flat, and those don't look right to me. Many hatters have now gotten access to felts from FEPSA in Portugal, these are pre finished hat bodies which removes the finishing variable, but some hatters are very experienced in the finer points of hat finishing (Bob from Black Sheep Hat works comes to mind particularly).

Don’t have time to “Talk Hats” ? That’s why I’m here.

 

[jeffgarf]

The only thing I feel I could add to this chat for someone learning about quality hats is, especially if you cannot get your hands on the hats you want to try right now, to READ through the various threads here. Some folks have mentioned great quality brands and, if you look just a bit, there are entire threads devoted to these brands, whether European or American. The hats usually posted here by those who took the time to continuously post and contribute to the storehouse of knowledge that this forum actually is, are usually very high quality. Study them and what users and wearers say about them and you can actually learn a great deal before you ever even get to touch one.

 

[belfastboy]

...which is presumably why our new friend is asking for advice. But you "don't have the time." Silly me, I keep thinking people are here to actually talk about vintage hats.

But I will offer a response that doesn't wholesale throw out vintage hats with the bath water, so to speak.

At the most plain level, manufacturers have quality grades. Without consideration to style, all other things being equal, a Royal Deluxe is "nicer" than a Royal quality hat. Now, the reality as folks in 2026 handling vintage objects, is that whatever the difference is, it's not necessarily readily apparent to modern eyes. I couldn't explain objectively why the Deluxe was actually deluxe (though I presume it was the felt blend and/or weight). But taken for face value, Imperial quality is higher quality than Sovereign, 7x is higher than 3x, etc (this of course varies over time). I mostly know Stetson, someone else could probably better explain the Qualita Superiore etc of Borsalino and other manufacturers.

Consequently, I've always stuck to the major brands. I've seen Penney's Marathon hats that I like the styling of, but let's be honest, that was a lower cost product aimed at a different segment of the market. Which is not to disparage Marathon hats at large, just that if one was seeking the highest quality, the store brands were generally not the pinnacle.

One of the easier red flags is the sweatband. For US hats, the black sweat band widely adopted in the 70's and 80's signals that the hat is not from the heyday of manufacturing. One of the hats that passed through my hands was a Bush hat co "The Superior Hat" Dakota model, their take on the Stetson. The sweatband was not quite as thick and was a lot more flimsy than say, my Boss Raw Edge. You don't want to see any cracking or dry leather.

If you're shopping in person at a vintage shop, pay attention to the smoothness of the felt. This is something you'll just have to learn from experience, but going back to the aforementioned Dakota, that was noticeably more coarse than the Stetson felt as well. If you can get your hands on a modern Akubra and a modern Stetson, this would also be illustrative of the difference. Akubra has made the tradeoff of spending less time and effort on finishing in order to keep the retail prices lower.

Other red flags include moth holes/divots. I just avoid these hats altogether as best I can. If the liner is dirty, the hat is probably dirtier than it appears. If the liner is glued in, that's either a relatively modern hat, or a cheaply made vintage hat.

As far as custom makers, not all are created equal. Some have blocking machines, hydraulic brim presses, and a library of vintage blocks. Some are a guy in their garage with a steam iron and some jury rigged tooling. It's a bit harder to tell online from pics, but be aware of how the sweatband is seated and where the reed is. Sweatbands are actually slightly convex and the reed should 'bell' outward. Pay attention to ribbon work. There are some haters that have kinda puffy bows that don't lay flat, and those don't look right to me. Many hatters have now gotten access to felts from FEPSA in Portugal, these are pre finished hat bodies which removes the finishing variable, but some hatters are very experienced in the finer points of hat finishing (Bob from Black Sheep Hat works comes to mind particularly).

Is Bob Jesse back making hats?

 

[belfastboy]

Don’t have time to “Talk Hats” ? That’s why I’m here.

If you go back and re read my post I said "I don't have time to give him a breakdown on the market." So my challenge to you is....please take the time to give this fellow a break down on the wide world hat market. You can start any time.

 

[belfastboy]

...which is presumably why our new friend is asking for advice. But you "don't have the time." Silly me, I keep thinking people are here to actually talk about vintage hats.

But I will offer a response that doesn't wholesale throw out vintage hats with the bath water, so to speak.

At the most plain level, manufacturers have quality grades. Without consideration to style, all other things being equal, a Royal Deluxe is "nicer" than a Royal quality hat. Now, the reality as folks in 2026 handling vintage objects, is that whatever the difference is, it's not necessarily readily apparent to modern eyes. I couldn't explain objectively why the Deluxe was actually deluxe (though I presume it was the felt blend and/or weight). But taken for face value, Imperial quality is higher quality than Sovereign, 7x is higher than 3x, etc (this of course varies over time). I mostly know Stetson, someone else could probably better explain the Qualita Superiore etc of Borsalino and other manufacturers.

Consequently, I've always stuck to the major brands. I've seen Penney's Marathon hats that I like the styling of, but let's be honest, that was a lower cost product aimed at a different segment of the market. Which is not to disparage Marathon hats at large, just that if one was seeking the highest quality, the store brands were generally not the pinnacle.

One of the easier red flags is the sweatband. For US hats, the black sweat band widely adopted in the 70's and 80's signals that the hat is not from the heyday of manufacturing. One of the hats that passed through my hands was a Bush hat co "The Superior Hat" Dakota model, their take on the Stetson. The sweatband was not quite as thick and was a lot more flimsy than say, my Boss Raw Edge. You don't want to see any cracking or dry leather.

If you're shopping in person at a vintage shop, pay attention to the smoothness of the felt. This is something you'll just have to learn from experience, but going back to the aforementioned Dakota, that was noticeably more coarse than the Stetson felt as well. If you can get your hands on a modern Akubra and a modern Stetson, this would also be illustrative of the difference. Akubra has made the tradeoff of spending less time and effort on finishing in order to keep the retail prices lower.

Other red flags include moth holes/divots. I just avoid these hats altogether as best I can. If the liner is dirty, the hat is probably dirtier than it appears. If the liner is glued in, that's either a relatively modern hat, or a cheaply made vintage hat.

As far as custom makers, not all are created equal. Some have blocking machines, hydraulic brim presses, and a library of vintage blocks. Some are a guy in their garage with a steam iron and some jury rigged tooling. It's a bit harder to tell online from pics, but be aware of how the sweatband is seated and where the reed is. Sweatbands are actually slightly convex and the reed should 'bell' outward. Pay attention to ribbon work. There are some haters that have kinda puffy bows that don't lay flat, and those don't look right to me. Many hatters have now gotten access to felts from FEPSA in Portugal, these are pre finished hat bodies which removes the finishing variable, but some hatters are very experienced in the finer points of hat finishing (Bob from Black Sheep Hat works comes to mind particularly).

Hmm, I thought you were smarter than this and had at least junior high reading comprehension. If you read my post .....again....you might notice I said I don't have time to give him the breakdown on the hat market. If you have the time....please feel free. And as for buying vintage......buying vintage is fraught with risk, especially for someone so new to hats and someone with very limited funds. That is, in my experience, an accurate statement.

 

[Adman256]

If you go back and re read my post I said "I don't have time to give him a breakdown on the market." So my challenge to you is....please take the time to give this fellow a break down on the wide world hat market. You can start any time.

He’s interested in hats not world wide markets. But you do make a strong point and thanks for that!

 

[Adman256]

The only think I feel I could add to this chat for someone leaving about quality hats is, especially if you cannot get your hands on the hats you want to try right now, to READ through the various threads here. Some folks have mentioned great quality brands and, if you look just a bit, there are entire threads devoted to these brands, whenever European or American. The hats usually posted here by those who took the time to continuously post and contribute to the storehouse of knowledge that this forum actually is, are usually very high quality. Study them and what users and wearers say about them and you can actually learn a great deal before you ever even get to touch one.

We have some very knowledgeable people in this fraternity and I’m thankful for their generous sharing of info !

 

[jlee562]

Hmm, I thought you were smarter than this and had at least junior high reading comprehension. If you read my post .....again....you might notice I said I don't have time to give him the breakdown on the hat market. If you have the time....please feel free. And as for buying vintage......buying vintage is fraught with risk, especially for someone so new to hats and someone with very limited funds. That is, in my experience, an accurate statement.

It's the hit dog that hollers.