The 1950s Suit

[herringbonekid]

THE GREAT ARMHOLE SHIFT. When did it happen? Why did it happen? Who was responsible?

it probably happened sooner, but i think the early 80s over-sized jackets by Armani et al are to blame. many 80s anomalies have become standard.

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Regards,

Senator Jack

Gee, you're thin. What's that space-age vehicle behind you? Ladies' armholes got big too in the late 60s to 70s. Yuk.
Ashley

 

[Senator Jack]

Thin? Thanks, but I got this big booze gut about the middle that I can never get rid of. The space age vehicle? Probably a Cop in a Box.

More 50s coming - including the padded shoulder winter coat.


Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Tomasso]

Proponents Would Say, Sleek.

these late 50s suits.. they just look a bit bland to me. there's just something very generic and safe about the overall proportion and features. no one part of the suit stands out as interesting.

The same could be said for much of the architectural and auto design of the era.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Great fabric! In fact, that is overall a great suit. How heavy/light-weight is it?

bk

 

[Senator Jack]

It's definitely a New York 2-season suit. I'd say about 13-14 oz. Even with the skeleton lining, it's warm.

Yes, Tomasso, being a proponent, I always use exactly that word: sleek. 50s suits may not have been about the boldness of the cut, but they definitely were about the pattern of the material.

If anyone is interested in a GREAT 50s suit - bluish grey with white fleck - there's a size 42 at Andy's Cheepees that he can't get rid of - Unfortunately, way too big for me or I would have snapped it up. I think he's asking $180 for it. Well worth it.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[scotrace]

What's This?

Sorry for the poor pictures, all I have on hand at the moment.
This was given to me by my former father in law. He would have worn it in the mid 1950's. It used to fit after altering it, but I will never be 25 again.
Two piece, three button. Pleated, notched, dropped loops. Watch pocket. But quite baggy and sacklike. Thin rayon sort of stuff, and nubby. About a 42R or so.

 

[scotrace]

Note Hat

Note that JFK is carrying a hat. A sop to the hatter's union. Is Ike following his lead? Eisenhower was determined to be courteous to the incoming President, having been horribly snubbed by Truman.
I love that JFK used his jacket pockets as a sort of "what to do with my hands" prop. It detracts attention from his usually obvious bad-back stiffness. One wonders if it was a studied move.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Seems to me high armholes were the norm till the late 70s. There was a shift in there somewhere, but I can't place it.

Here's what I've concluded, based on the vintage jackets I've seen and inspected.


On conservative suit jackets (not "Beatle" jackets), armholes became lower in the early 1960s. Believe it or not, Brooks Brothers led the way. (In fact, since at least the 1920s, 3-button sack suits have had slightly lower armholes than the norm.)


Then, in the late '60s and early '70s, the Carnaby Street/Pierre Cardin "flare" suit took hold. These suits had jackets with narrow sleeves and high armholes. The look lasted until the end of the '70s.


Around 1980, two very influential menswear designers brought back the low armhole: Willi Smith (of "WilliWear") and Georgio Armani. These men almost singlehandedly created the trend for low armholes, broad padded shoulders, and drapey natural fabrics. Customers who "pumped up" their arms at the gym found lower armholes to be more comfortable ... and dress shirts started to be made with lower armholes, too.


Today, most dress shirts and jackets continue to have low armholes, though this is changing.


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[Marc Chevalier]

Note that JFK is carrying a hat.

And he's wearing a "continental" suit.

.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Sorry for the poor pictures, all I have on hand at the moment.
This was given to me by my former father in law.

This is a mid-'50s "T" suit ("Bold Look"). By the mid-'50s, these suits were being made with narrower lapels and slightly tapered trouser legs. Around this time, the Italian "continental" suit was beginning to be seen in the U.S.A.

.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

I can't help wondering if Christopher Walken has one.

 

[Tomasso]

The Continental?

I can't help wondering if Christopher Walken has one.

 

[scotrace]

.

That suit didn't get a bite on eBay. Some "condition problems" as they say on Antiques Roadshow.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Wel I talked to Flavio who is a tailor who worked with Armani and he says Armani really pushed the draping look in the 80's. Completely true and counter to what he made for the movie the Untouchables. Bigger body and drooping shoulders. Though that is fashion. Why though didn't the armholes come back up when fashion returned to the slimmer jacket?

The arguement that people became more fit is very off to me as I don't recall people all of a sudden becoming ultra fit in the 80's. With bigger biceps you still have the armpit staying in place. An arguement for bigger worked out shoulders is an arguement for longer suits, and I have seen plenty of 80s suits with huge amholes and fitted silouettes. Anywho... I'll have some answers ina bit. I'm making headway with calls to top men.

I can see how a boxier jacket that you want to lay away from the body would require a higher armhole. I don't see why the armhole stayed low.

If you are fit enough to have huge biceps then you'd get an athletic build suit from a big and tall shop.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... I don't recall people all of a sudden becoming ultra fit in the 80's.

Ah, but one group of men became quite ultrafit in the '80s. Let's just say that they're very much in the fashion biz. And as MK has pointed out, most menswear designers don't create apparel with hetero***ual men in mind.

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[Marc Chevalier]

If you are fit enough to have huge biceps then you'd get an athletic build suit from a big and tall shop.

"Athletic build" suits were being sold in mainstream department stores in the late '80s. I know; I worked summers in one of them.

.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Yes they were... And they were athletic build suits. My brother wears them. Made right they have high armholes as well...

The low armhole is a fashion not a necessity.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Cool. Did you get my PM? Need your address for a photo shoot fiesta.

.

 

[Tomasso]

The argument that people became more fit is very off

Do you mean fit or fat? In the 80's, larger armholes were as much a concession to John Candy as Arnold Schwarzenegger. And, the same today.