Shirt collars over lapels?

[The Wolf]

Here's my attempt at a collar over the suit lapels.

Don't worry, I wore this to work before Labor Day.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[Irene Goodnight]

Just adding an Australian view - I've just gone through family pics from the 20s, 40s and 50s taken in England, Western Samoa and Australia, and the collar over the jacket crops up in all of these decades in all of these places.

I'm quite taken with the look, when it's done well

I'll add the photos to this post, when I've made enough posts to be allowed images.

-Irene

 

[Tomasso]

You can post images right now;it's the PM feature which requires 15 posts.

 

[Irene Goodnight]

Thanks for correcting me on that, Tomasso.

Ok, first one is a photo from the late 1930s/early 1940s, taken in Western Samoa. The gentleman in trousers and a white shirt is my great-grandfather, while the three men in shorts and rope belts are the crew of an aeroplane that had been used in previous years to set across-the-world records. Note that the crew are Australians, and my great-grandfather was a dual Australian/Samoan citizen - may have some bearing on the fashions worn.

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Second photo is my maternal grandad, in England in the early-mid 1950s. He's looking rather casual, but in a good way!

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And my grandad again, same time period, out cycling.

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Hope these are some help.

 

[Derek WC]

Great pictures Irene, and welcome to the Lounge.

 

[Widebrim]

Love that top photo, Irene. What was your great grand-dad doing in Western Samoa?

 

[Irene Goodnight]

Thanks for the kind welcome, Derek.

Widebrim - My family has been in Samoa since the mid 1800s, owning/running a plantation farm. We still have relatives living on the same plantation now, although on my side of the family, my grandfather was the last one to actually grow up in Samoa. As was common for any white family living in the Pacific islands throughout the 1800s and the first half of the 1900s, childbirth and children's higher education took place in Australia (NZ, for some families) where facilities were of a much higher standard. Hence my grandfather eventually settling in Australia for good.

Anyhoo, it makes for some interesting photos of the end of the colonial period in the Pacific.

 

[Miss sofia]

Hello and welcome! Great family photos, i shall have another look now!

 

[acl1]

In those pictures, it looks great, though it is a different time. Personally, I don't think collars over lapels looks right 99% of the time, but your picture is in the other 1%.

 

[sinatra66]

hello all, i'm new.
love the fact there is some one like me. so i'm not crazy? i've been collecting square bottom sport shirts. that led to wearing pleated baggy trousers. that led to hats. just purchased a biltmore 2" c crown senator. any way, in the army we wore collars out on jackets in summer (winter wear a tie). my thoughts are, the army holds on to traditions the longest. things i was doing in the 80's/90's, my father did in the 50's/60's/70's, his father and brother was doing in the 30's/40's. so if it is ok with them it's ok.

 

[Derek WC]

Welcome to the Lounge, Sinatra66. Vintage collecting can become quite the addiction.

 

[Big Man]

How about two shirts with a jacket ...

Here's a picture of my Dad (on the right) and a couple of his friends taken in 1940. Not only did my Dad have his collar outside his jacket, but apparently wearing two shirts was also in style at the time.

 

[Tomasso]

Here's a picture of my Dad ....wearing two shirts........

Eh, he's a good lookin' guy; he can get away with that nonsense...

 

[Derek WC]

Great picture Big Man. I didn't know that was ever in style, I'm gonna try that.

 

[Big Man]

My Dad must have liked the collar over the jacket lapel style because here he is again ten years later in 1950. That's my Mother with him.

 

[Geronimo]

It can be a good look.

Very nice. That blue suit is a thing of beauty - do you know what (besides blue) that color is called? I've been wanting one like that since seeing the original Maxwell Smart wearing one.

 

[reetpleat]

I just got this shirt today with comparatively long, pointy collars. Just had to try wearing it with the collars over the lapels - and I have to admit that I like it. [huh]

I like this shirt with the over the collar look, as it is slightly informal due to color and texture. But not sure about with the ascot. I tend to think open neck, over collar, but with ascot, looks best tucked in under collar. But great suave look all the same.

 

[reetpleat]

I am surprised no one has addressed this more technically. The first part is speculation on my part. But it seems in the twenties and thirties, in hot climates, and summer, when a tie would be too much, the style developed as a sporty look. With the thin fabric of collars back then, it looked pretty sharp in a sporty casual way only men back then seem to pull off just right.

In the thirties, probably mainly due to this trend and the "california look" of unstructured jackets with point collars, the convertible collar was invented. Not sure if it was called that at first, but it was marketed as that in the forties. This is the traditional "loop" shirt, and was intended for a more casual look, or working professionals such as an engineer or architect who would have to go out in field (this is how I have seen it marketed) This collar, to be technical, had no collar band. A dress shirt has a band then a collar sewn into it. this is hat makes a shirt look not as smooth open and over the collar, but can work when it lays right and has the right fabric and shape.

the thirties convertible collars, in contrast, had one piece collars, as mentioned above. They often had long points, that would match casual jackets so they lined up, but also were worn over traditional collared sport coats and suits. Looks great.

By the 40s, they were very popular in gabardine, in wool, rayon, cotton or blends. They would not be worn with a tie under a suit, but, to respond to the baron, were often worn with the loop buttoned and a flashy tie, often in interesting color combinations. or, buttoned with no tie (mostly black guys) either under a jacket, or no jacket. This was also a popular look for zoot suited latinos in the 40s, with no tie. Interestingly, it is not unusual to see p[ics of old farmers in dress shirts and no ties, buttoned up to the neck. often under overalls. amongst latinos in Califas, the look eventually evolved into an interesting affectation involving buttoning just to top button over a tank style undershirt. But I digress.

In the 50s and 60s, most sport shirts were designed with this fold over one piece collar, although not always loop style. Many of them were designed to not be buttonable, often not even having a top button. these were commonly worn over a jacket or sport coat or suit jacket, with an open collar, although as the lapels got thin, they seem to be more casual looking. Also, it was not unusual for banded collar sport shirts to be worn open collar over the lapel, but it would be quite unusual to see a person wearing a white dress shirt open collar under a suit or sport coat, as if by now it was not acceptable unless it was a sport shirt.

So, there are my observations on the look. I am often torn because i like the look and find it much more comfortable, but then I do not get to wear one of my great ties.

 

[KenDale]

Some great pics! You really pull off the look very well Thunderw21.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

(....)but then I do not get to wear one of my great ties.

:arated:

But my brother doesn't like flashy ties but a sporty 40s/ 50s style. This collar over lapels thing might be the best idea for him.

Whats the difference between 40s Open Collar shirts and 70s? (except polyester)
Does the collar still have a curve?