Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Rusty54]

Oh, thats interesting your two jackets have slightly different button placements. I'm guessing thats how they make it for some "in between" sizes and just do a production run with less molds.

 

[Dinerman]

Three Ralph Lauren repros of the WWI design. Interestingly, though all are the same model, there are subtle differences between each of them.

 

[Peacoat]

Those would be nice buttons if the initials "RL" weren't on them. The last two pics are showing the lapels as they were later worn on the post WWII models. The eight button style required a lot of training with all buttons closed--and then it never really worked. That's why they went to the six button model, which is used here in the last two pics even though it is an eight button model. And they got the corduroy pockets right.

 

[Spartcom5]

Peacoat I'm hoping you can help me out! I picked up this WW2 peacoat at an estate sale for $75. It was missing one button but thankfully it was in the pocket! The lining of the sleeves inside have torn from the threading, I have a great tailor nearby who should be able to fix it perfectly. There is no collar piece however, I couldn't find it. It was hand embroidered in Shanghai China dated 1945. I've looked and there are absolutely no tags on the inside of the coat, not even anything left over where there would've been a tag... I'm confused by that because shouldn't there be a Naval Clothing tag? Not sure on the size except for the fact it fit me perfectly. Great coat, I've never worn a peacoat before or anything this old for that matter. Any insight would be appreciated! Thanks!

[/IMG]

 

[Peacoat]

Yes, there should be a tag, unless the lining was replaced. If the lining is showing signs of wear, and from what you have said, it is, then the embroidery was added to the existing lining.

Please post a picture of the last 8" of the sleeve at the cuff.

 

[Spartcom5]

Like this I hope? I do think it may have been relined. What about the collar? The collar has two button on it, shouldn't it have 3? Very confusing haha! The embroidery is what makes this coat different from most!

 

[Peacoat]

For a WWII peacoat I would have expected to see a single line of stitching about 3" or 4" above the single line of stitching right at the cuff. Don't know what to make of this. There should be rectangular stitch marks just below the right inside pocket opening where the tag had been, if the coat had the original lining. If I could handle the coat, I think I could sort it pretty accurately.

What do you mean by ". . . the collar has two buttons on it, shouldn't it have 3?"

It would be odd to see a 1945 peacoat relined that early in its career. Also the lining looks a bit different than the lining on my peacoats. I would like to put it under magnification to see its exact properties. Will think about it again tomorrow. In the interim please let me know what you mean by the two button vs. three button comment. A picture would be helpful. PC.

 

[Spartcom5]

Well what I mean is that shouldn't there be a collar piece that connects the neck together? See in this picture, there is no button on my coat (the left button in the picture). The right button is there however. Confusing I know sadly I have no picture ATM. But long story short there is no way I would be able to button the collar up as pictured. And yea this is a very interesting jacket... Maybe they had the sleeves shortened hence the stitching? They probably had it relined when they got the embroidery? I can provide whatever high quality pictures you need!

 

[Peacoat]

As you have indicated, there should be three small buttons under the collar. One on the right hand side and two on the left hand side. The two buttons on the left hand side are used to hold the throat latch out of the way when not being used (which is about 98% of the time).

No, the sleeves wouldn't have been shortened by 3.5", which is how far above the cuff the second line of stitching is.

I put the photograph of your lining and the lining in my WWII peacoat under 10x magnification; they are basically the same. In fact the lining in the three or four peacoats that I checked are all consistent.

As to the absence of stitch marks where the tag should have been, I just checked my late 60s peacoat to see how prominent they are. Well, there are no stitch marks. They have faded with time. As your coat is about 25 years older than mine, It is reasonable to conclude that the stitch holes on yours have faded with time as well.

My assessment is that your coat is an original WWII peacoat with the original lining that has had embroidery added. The stitch holes have faded with time, and the lack of a single line of stitching 3.5" above the cuff is an unexplained anomaly. It is not unusual to have anomalies in these old coats. In fact my theory is that the women who put them together often would intentionally throw in an anomaly with the specific intent to confuse researchers 50 to 100 years in the future. I have seen my share of anomalies and have been confused numerous times. So, to you seamstresses 75 years ago, if you are still alive, you have accomplished your mission and have done a good job of it. But I think we have this one sorted out. PC.

 

[Spartcom5]

Wow thanks! Very informative! However I've run into a roadblock here. The tailor I took it to said she can fix it up new (she makes her own wedding dresses so shes more than qualified). She told me to take it to get cleaned, so I took it to a highly rated dry cleaner in my area... They said that they would throw it in a tumbler with some solvent because thats what they do with wool items? Any idea on this? Does it sound safe? I worry the buttons may get dinged up, the lining of the arms will tear completely, the silk threaded embroidery will be damaged, and some other things lol. What should I do? It needs to be cleaned as it smells very old and musky. What do you do? Also, took some more detailed pictures for you to look at! Note: the missing button on the collar, a repair of the underarm, and detailed of the lining.

 

[Jim B.]

Without a picture it is hard to tell. I haven't known moths to cause damage such as you describe. Could be another form of vermin that has been mentioned in connection with leather jackets, but I can't remember what it was.

Carpet beetle larvae

 

[Peacoat]

Get it cleaned. I have the ones I wear cleaned once a year. Doesn't bother them a bit. In fact, they seem to like it. Makes them look and feel much better after the cleaning.

 

[Spartcom5]

Hmm okay, it's getting repaired right now. The tailor didn't like the idea of the tumbler because she's worried about the embroidery. It doesn't seem very durable as it is silk, do you think it'd be fine in a tumbler at the dry cleaner? Does your dry cleaner use a tumbler and all is good? If it wasn't for the dragon I wouldn't hesitate and nobody can guarantee it won't get messed up. Also my tailor is thinking of hand washing this coat in cold water with a light brush and mild detergent then air dry. Will the coat shrink at all doing this? Sorry for all the questions, I don't want to screw this up.

 

[Peacoat]

I just don't know about the hand washing. Normally wool and water don't mix too well, although I have seen hunt coats hand washed while I was in England.

I believe all cleaners use the tumbler.

 

[Peacoat]

Now that I have thought about it for a few hours, I think it would be perfectly OK to dry clean this coat, and the dragon, if you button all the buttons so that the dragon is protected as much as can be protected. You might also put the collar up and temporarily sew the throat latch area closed for more protection, if you are that concerned about damage. It would just take a few minutes. Also take the coat to the cleaners and ask what they think about it. You will want to go to the location where the items are actually cleaned and ask them. They will have more experience than the other locations.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. PC

 

[Spartcom5]

Hmm alright I'll call the tailor and make sure she doesn't wash it in water. Dry cleaning does sound like the safest route honestly, if this coat were to get soaked it would take ages for it to dry out! Idk about temporally sewing it but buttoning does sound like a good idea. The solvent the cleaners use should be safe and won't fade or mess the color of the dragon up?

 

[Peacoat]

Hmm alright I'll call the tailor and make sure she doesn't wash it in water. Dry cleaning does sound like the safest route honestly, if this coat were to get soaked it would take ages for it to dry out! Idk about temporally sewing it but buttoning does sound like a good idea. The solvent the cleaners use should be safe and won't fade or mess the color of the dragon up?

I don't know, never had a dragon on a coat. The cleaners you talk to should know. I have taken all sorts of things to the cleaners without a problem, but ask them and see what they say.

 

[Guppy]

Peacoat I'm hoping you can help me out! I picked up this WW2 peacoat at an estate sale for $75. It was missing one button but thankfully it was in the pocket! The lining of the sleeves inside have torn from the threading, I have a great tailor nearby who should be able to fix it perfectly. There is no collar piece however, I couldn't find it. It was hand embroidered in Shanghai China dated 1945. I've looked and there are absolutely no tags on the inside of the coat, not even anything left over where there would've been a tag... I'm confused by that because shouldn't there be a Naval Clothing tag? Not sure on the size except for the fact it fit me perfectly. Great coat, I've never worn a peacoat before or anything this old for that matter. Any insight would be appreciated! Thanks!

[/IMG] View attachment 49085 View attachment 49086

Wow, that is so cool!

 

[Dr H]

Three Ralph Lauren repros of the WWI design. Interestingly, though all are the same model, there are subtle differences between each of them.

I've just bought one of these from CBI through the classifieds. It's closest to the top peacoat in detailing, but also has subtle differences. The buttons are a bit of a RL conceit (I guess I could replace with originals as they are still around now and again on EBay), but overall the quality of the peacoat is superb. So heavy and beautifully tailored - it has just become my favourite cold weather coat.

 

[Peacoat]

I have heard those are nice coats.

Do you know the difference between the Kersey wool and the Melton wool? If so, which of the shells is your RL the closest to?