Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[GGinSF]

US Navy Peacoat question - storm flap

I had a great pea coat many years ago, and I'd like to get another to replace it. I've read up a bit on this site so I know how to date most old pea coats. What I'm interested in is whether all the coats from WWII to the current models have the "storm flap" under the collar? I'm referring to the strap that is attached by smaller buttons for storage, and can be used across the throat. My old coat had one, and I'm sure the WWII era ones did, but I haven't seen pictures of 50's/60's ones with this feature. Thanks for any info you can share.

 

[Highwaymanman]

I had a great pea coat many years ago, and I'd like to get another to replace it. I've read up a bit on this site so I know how to date most old pea coats. What I'm interested in is whether all the coats from WWII to the current models have the "storm flap" under the collar? I'm referring to the strap that is attached by smaller buttons for storage, and can be used across the throat. My old coat had one, and I'm sure the WWII era ones did, but I haven't seen pictures of 50's/60's ones with this feature. Thanks for any info you can share.

I think what you're describing is the throat latch. A storm flap is a piece of material that fits behind the zip on a single breasted jacket intended to keep wind out. A2 type jackets and cafe racers (among others) often have them. The classic pea coat, being double breasted, doesn't need one since the doubled material over the front acts in exactly the same fashion.

I have seen many pea coats that don't have the throat latch.

 

[Peacoat]

I'm not sure, but I believe the throat latch ended with the WWII models. The post war models have a button under the collar that serves, basically, the same purpose.

Oh, and welcome to the Lounge.

Scott, Paddy or D-man, could one of you move this to the big peacoat thread?

 

[Dinerman]

Sure can.

 

[wquiles]

Thanks to this forum/threads on the Navy Peacoat, I am interesting in getting a second one (hopefully it will stop at just 2 of them!). Just ran across a coat with this label - real Navy issue, or not?

 

[GGinSF]

I'm not sure, but I believe the throat latch ended with the WWII models. The post war models have a button under the collar that serves, basically, the same purpose.

Oh, and welcome to the Lounge.

Scott, Paddy or D-man, could one of you move this to the big peacoat thread?

Thank you (for the answer & for the move to the correct thread). I was initially torn between getting a replacement WWII vs. a 50's/60's. I like the look of the lapel on the later, but I'm sentimental and since my old one (stolen in the early 90's) was WWII-era I'd like to replace it with similar. I was always intrigued by the throat latch. I'm just hoping that the tighter cut of WWII is OK, since I'm not quite as thin as I was 25 years ago!

At 5'8", 40" chest (measured, and suit jacket wise as well), 170 lbs, I've been looking for a size 40. One I've got my eye on doesn't have a size tag, but stated measurements are:

shoulder to shoulder 18 1/2"
shoulder to cuff 25"
armpit to armpit 20"
top to bottom 32 1/2"

Does that sound about right, or a bit small? It seems hard to find shoulders wider than 18.5" in the older coats. Thanks again for the help.

 

[wquiles]

Thank you (for the answer & for the move to the correct thread). I was initially torn between getting a replacement WWII vs. a 50's/60's. I like the look of the lapel on the later, but I'm sentimental and since my old one (stolen in the early 90's) was WWII-era I'd like to replace it with similar. I was always intrigued by the throat latch. I'm just hoping that the tighter cut of WWII is OK, since I'm not quite as thin as I was 25 years ago!

At 5'8", 40" chest (measured, and suit jacket wise as well), 170 lbs, I've been looking for a size 40. One I've got my eye on doesn't have a size tag, but stated measurements are:

shoulder to shoulder 18 1/2"
shoulder to cuff 25"
armpit to armpit 20"
top to bottom 32 1/2"

Does that sound about right, or a bit small? It seems hard to find shoulders wider than 18.5" in the older coats. Thanks again for the help.

I am new here as well, but I am also 5'8", 170 pounds, I wear size 40 suits, and the 1958-1965 Peacoat I just got in 40R fits me well, with room for a sweater, so to me size 40 was the right size.

Per the rule-of-thumb I learned here, armpit to armpit of 20" means the coat is a 38, not a 40. Both should fit you, but the 38 might fit with little/no room for layering.

 

[GGinSF]

Thanks, wquiles. You've confirmed what I was thinking. I think I'll stick with a size 40 in a six-button late 50's/60's style, or jump up a size in WWII.

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks to this forum/threads on the Navy Peacoat, I am interesting in getting a second one (hopefully it will stop at just 2 of them!). Just ran across a coat with this label - real Navy issue, or not?

I think it is Navy issue. Although I haven't seen an Atlantic Coat Company tag before. The litmus test for this tag is the type of wool shell the jacket has. Is it the Kersey wool? If so, it is the real deal. If you don't have the coat in your possession, and you are thinking about buying it, I would think the tag is sufficient to allow 90% probability that it is a vintage issue coat.

And you are correct about the 20+" being a size 38. And also correct about a size 38 fitting someone with a 40" chest without much room for a sweater.

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks, wquiles. You've confirmed what I was thinking. I think I'll stick with a size 40 in a six-button late 50's/60's style, or jump up a size in WWII.

If you have a true 40" chest, I wouldn't go up to a size 42 in the WWII coats. I think a 40 would fit you fine and might even allow for a sweater. The WWII coats are cut a little more fitted, but you don't need to go up a size. They are only about 1/2" smaller in diameter--p2p is 1/4" smaller.

 

[GGinSF]

One WWII model I'm looking at doesn't have a tag size, but listed measurements are 21.5" pit to pit, and 19.5" shoulder to shoulder. Does that sound like a size 40?

 

[wquiles]

I think it is Navy issue. Although I haven't seen an Atlantic Coat Company tag before. The litmus test for this tag is the type of wool shell the jacket has. Is it the Kersey wool? If so, it is the real deal. If you don't have the coat in your possession, and you are thinking about buying it, I would think the tag is sufficient to allow 90% probability that it is a vintage issue coat.

And you are correct about the 20+" being a size 38. And also correct about a size 38 fitting someone with a 40" chest without much room for a sweater.

The tag says it should be from 1975, but the seller states it is made out of Melton Wool, and that it is in fact slightly thinner than in other years. Here is the listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301044987965?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Here is another one, from 1990 (the seller send me an additional photo with the inner label):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191003276822?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[Peacoat]

One WWII model I'm looking at doesn't have a tag size, but listed measurements are 21.5" pit to pit, and 19.5" shoulder to shoulder. Does that sound like a size 40?

Yes, that is a size 40. If the p2p is correct, it will fit just a little bit larger than the standard WWII model. Maybe 1/2" in diameter. Most would not notice the subtle chest diameter increase.

 

[Peacoat]

The tag says it should be from 1975, but the seller states it is made out of Melton Wool, and that it is in fact slightly thinner than in other years. Here is the listing:

OK, this one is more difficult than most. The seller, for once, seems to be knowledgable. But I trust very few peacoat sellers. Some seem to know what they are talking about, but really don't have a clue. I have a feeling this seller knows the score.

In 1973 Pembroke had the contract for some Melton pea coats. Until now I didn't know there was another year Melton was used--assuming this seller is correct. If I could see the coat in person, it would only take about 2 seconds to sort it out.

I might buy it just to see what it is made of. But if you are going to bid on it, let me know, and I will stay out of the chase. Plus, my wife told me about four years ago: "No more pea coats." And she is right, as my walkin closet has no more room.

 

[Doctor Damage]

In 1973 Pembroke had the contract for some Melton pea coats. Until now I didn't know there was another year Melton was used--assuming this seller is correct. If I could see the coat in person, it would only take about 2 seconds to sort it out.

If you take the photo of the rank stripes and brighten it up, you can see that the cloth surrounding the badge is (almost certainly) melton since it has a pretty 'rough' texture, unlike the kersey wool which looks almost smooth in photos. Also, in the photo showing the seller's hand and the crossed anchor badge, you can see a fuzzy nap to the surface of the coat (in profile), which strongly suggests melton wool for the same reason.

 

[GGinSF]

For older coats with rank patches still on them, is there usually a noticeable difference in color due to fading (or lack of it under the patch) when the patch is removed?

 

[Peacoat]

For older coats with rank patches still on them, is there usually a noticeable difference in color due to fading (or lack of it under the patch) when the patch is removed?

With all of the peacoats I have owned, only one had the rating on the coat. I removed it with no difference in the material. I believe it was a 1980 current issue coat. If a coat has been in the closet for fifty or so years, as most of them have been, there should be no appreciable difference in the material.

 

[wquiles]

Peacoat,

Today I had to go out and ran some errands, and it was about 42F, with constant rain, low wind. I had a thin long sleeve t-shirt, a thin North Face vest, and my "new-to-me" Peacoat - if felt awesome - as if I was indoors, nice and warm. The 40R was also comfortable while driving (just undo the last button). I can tell this coat is going to serve me well for a long time.

Thanks once more. I am now a true believer on these vintage coats

I now need to find a second/backup coat!

Will

 

[Peacoat]

Peacoat,

Today I had to go out and ran some errands, and it was about 42F, with constant rain, low wind. I had a thin long sleeve t-shirt, a thin North Face vest, and my "new-to-me" Peacoat - if felt awesome - as if I was indoors, nice and warm. The 40R was also comfortable while driving (just undo the last button). I can tell this coat is going to serve me well for a long time.

Thanks once more. I am now a true believer on these vintage coats

I now need to find a second/backup coat!

Will

Careful about buying more pea coats. One back up is OK, but don't do more than that, or you will end up with closet full of them like me. I am down to about 15 after giving several to friends.

Back in the old days, when I was much younger, I spent time in the Detroit area and NYC. Typically, when we would be out and about, the temp was around 18 degrees. I found that my size 40 peacoat, fitted fairly close to my body, and a shirt were all I needed to stay warm.

Times have changed. A couple of weeks ago the temp was 19 degrees. I wore the same size 40 peacoat, which is now fitted a little more closely to my body, a T shirt and a long sleeve shirt. Got a bit chilled as I walked from my car to the office. Not bad, but I could feel the cold. The next day the temp was 20 degrees. I wore a size 42 peacoat over a thin wool sweater and a long sleeve shirt, and was perfectly warm. The only real difference was the addition of the sweater.

So, that tells me two things: I have become more susceptible to the cold as I have gotten older, and a sweater (or a vest) under the peacoat greatly adds to the insulation factor. That's why I recommend that prospective buyers get a peacoat that isn't closely fitted to the body, especially if they live in an area that has cold winters. Or, perhaps the best of both worlds would be to have two pea coats: one that is closely fitted and one that would allow a sweater to be worn underneath when the temperature gets below freezing--which is my cutoff point.

So, with that story in mind, you might want to get a second peacoat, one size smaller than the one you have now. Good luck and good hunting. PC

 

[Sloan1874]

15? Now that's ********! I always thought Atticus Finch was the last word in full-on collecting with his A-2/tanker jacket closet, but you be da man!