Khilij
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Excellent work!
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Leather under a microscope
- Thread starter spectre6000
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I agree.
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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That I know a little about. Bellies are stretchy, and backs are pretty... mechanically stable. If you're trying to make a belt (either for a machine or your pants), you cut from along the back. Bellies are scrap for anything I've ever done prior to this. Cutting cow in fronts will make for short belt sections if that's what you're after. Not sure why that's the thing exactly save maybe a tradition predating the industrial revolution?
Beautiful is a good thing. I'm going for informative, insightful, educational, etc. I know I've learned a few things, and a desire has been stated for a way to discern horse from cow, which I think might actually be in the works!
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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I found a website that sells samples of some pretty nice leathers for cheap with free shipping. Got a bunch of horse and interesting cow options. Also found a place with a similar deal on kangaroo hide! Supposedly, that's about the toughest stuff going. Given that marsupials have almost nothing in common with the typical livestock fare (cow, horse, goat, deer), it wouldn't surprise me to find some significant differences. I'll report back when I have something to share.
spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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OK. Samples arrived Thursday, but I was out of town Friday morning through last night. I did a quick run through the samples under the scope. I realized about halfway through that one of my adjustments was off from inspecting a pocket watch balance sometime between now and the last set of leather samples.... It's quite a process to get through them, so it just is what it is. I didn't record the setting, but it's about half what I had been doing otherwise. I'm going to try to label them accordingly, but file names are still the max zoom setting label because it's part of the organization system I have going... I'm going to post all the photos up tonight, and I'll try to follow up with edited-in analysis as time allows over the next few days as before.
Here goes!
Edit: These are essentially in the order they came out of the envelopes. Had I thought ahead even a little, I'd probably have tried to make some sense of them beyond that.
Here goes!
Edit: These are essentially in the order they came out of the envelopes. Had I thought ahead even a little, I'd probably have tried to make some sense of them beyond that.
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 193
Badalassi Minerva Box (I got another sample of this, because it was a dollar and the previous sample was a bit confounding) - cow
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OK. Analysis time! Up first is essentially a repeat, but in a lighter color than before. Canuck Panda sent me a darker brown sample of this same tannage, and it threw me a little. I was thinking that solid meaty cross cut was a horse thing, but it looks like it has something to do with the post-tanning treatments. Hot stuffing and the like. This seems like it'd be a really durable leather, and given what seems to be a bit of a premium paid for horse, I think I would probably strongly consider this a viable alternative. I haven't looked closely at any of the others yet, but I recall that all of the Badalassi leathers had a similar appearance. Whatever they're doing seems to be working! I think that since the meaty appearance can be attributed to the stuffing, it might mean looking at more structural differences to see what's going on between cow and horse. Also, note the random pore arrangement. This will come up later.
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OK. Analysis time! Up first is essentially a repeat, but in a lighter color than before. Canuck Panda sent me a darker brown sample of this same tannage, and it threw me a little. I was thinking that solid meaty cross cut was a horse thing, but it looks like it has something to do with the post-tanning treatments. Hot stuffing and the like. This seems like it'd be a really durable leather, and given what seems to be a bit of a premium paid for horse, I think I would probably strongly consider this a viable alternative. I haven't looked closely at any of the others yet, but I recall that all of the Badalassi leathers had a similar appearance. Whatever they're doing seems to be working! I think that since the meaty appearance can be attributed to the stuffing, it might mean looking at more structural differences to see what's going on between cow and horse. Also, note the random pore arrangement. This will come up later.
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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Badalassi Minerva Smooth
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More Badalassi bacon. Cow again, and same random pore arrangement. I think this got rolled or something somehow to smooth it out compared to the "box" variety. The pores look kinda crushed. It looks kinda like the top layer is really thick in this and other samples like it, but it's just a bit of a bevel from the samples being stamped out rather than cut. To see the actual thickness of the top/finish layer, you have to look at the actual interface, and note that there's basically no thickness to it. I think I finally figured out what the white sand is! I think it's fat crystals like you get in an aged cheese. I don't know of any way to test this off the top of my head, but they've shown up on several samples from several sources with very different histories. The only thing they have in common is being decently high quality leather. If anyone knows of any tests to confirm this, let me know.
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More Badalassi bacon. Cow again, and same random pore arrangement. I think this got rolled or something somehow to smooth it out compared to the "box" variety. The pores look kinda crushed. It looks kinda like the top layer is really thick in this and other samples like it, but it's just a bit of a bevel from the samples being stamped out rather than cut. To see the actual thickness of the top/finish layer, you have to look at the actual interface, and note that there's basically no thickness to it. I think I finally figured out what the white sand is! I think it's fat crystals like you get in an aged cheese. I don't know of any way to test this off the top of my head, but they've shown up on several samples from several sources with very different histories. The only thing they have in common is being decently high quality leather. If anyone knows of any tests to confirm this, let me know.
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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- 193
Badalassi Nemesis - pretty sure it's cow
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Badalassi bacon again. Seller's site doesn't name a species, but the pores say cow. The finish appears (on this small sample at least) not to hide any marks. Bug bites and scars and such. Maybe it's just the specifics of the sample, but I like it! Combined with the meaty stuffing, I this appears to be pretty minimally processed with only the color being an "extra". Of the latest tranche to this point, this would probably be my choice. The trend seems to be that there's a super thin layer of epidermis, then tight, dense layer, then a more slabby layer, then it gets fuzzy. The tight dense layer is where the good wear characteristics must come from, and only exists in full and top grain leathers.
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Badalassi bacon again. Seller's site doesn't name a species, but the pores say cow. The finish appears (on this small sample at least) not to hide any marks. Bug bites and scars and such. Maybe it's just the specifics of the sample, but I like it! Combined with the meaty stuffing, I this appears to be pretty minimally processed with only the color being an "extra". Of the latest tranche to this point, this would probably be my choice. The trend seems to be that there's a super thin layer of epidermis, then tight, dense layer, then a more slabby layer, then it gets fuzzy. The tight dense layer is where the good wear characteristics must come from, and only exists in full and top grain leathers.
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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- 193
Badalassi Pueblo - cow
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The pores on this say something... They're more round, and arranged in lines. The pores have a point to them. Maybe the previous ones are rolled for texture purposes, and this one isn't? Definitely different than the last two.
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The pores on this say something... They're more round, and arranged in lines. The pores have a point to them. Maybe the previous ones are rolled for texture purposes, and this one isn't? Definitely different than the last two.
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spectre6000
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Badalassi Waxy
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This one is called waxy, so I'm going to assume the finishing process uses a lot of wax. The upper layers are not as textured as the previous samples, and I'm going to assume that has to do with the wax. Also, a lot more of the fat granules on this one. If we're to make conclusions from this, I would guess that the Badalassi bacon effect is from the wax. I like how it is on the inside, but don't care so much for the surface finish. Personal preference...
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This one is called waxy, so I'm going to assume the finishing process uses a lot of wax. The upper layers are not as textured as the previous samples, and I'm going to assume that has to do with the wax. Also, a lot more of the fat granules on this one. If we're to make conclusions from this, I would guess that the Badalassi bacon effect is from the wax. I like how it is on the inside, but don't care so much for the surface finish. Personal preference...
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spectre6000
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Conceria Walpier Buttero - cow
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Not Badalassi, finally. Interesting surface finish with the pores all squashed down and glazed over with something. Pretty bacony, but maybe a little less than the Badalassi samples.
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Not Badalassi, finally. Interesting surface finish with the pores all squashed down and glazed over with something. Pretty bacony, but maybe a little less than the Badalassi samples.
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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Conceria Walpier Dollaro - cow
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So this one has a weird texture to it. Looking at the photos, the pores are like... stretched out over themselves. I think what they did is run some sort of high friction roller over the top to sort of loosen the top layer and expand it relative to the lower layers. You can kind of see it in the profile images with the diagonal... cracks. That's a theory at least.
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So this one has a weird texture to it. Looking at the photos, the pores are like... stretched out over themselves. I think what they did is run some sort of high friction roller over the top to sort of loosen the top layer and expand it relative to the lower layers. You can kind of see it in the profile images with the diagonal... cracks. That's a theory at least.
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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Conceria Walpier Mud - cow
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They market this as full grain, but it looks very slightly corrected. You can still see the pores, but the spaces between the pores is anything but smooth like you'd expect. It's possible it's been damaged somehow for aesthetic reasons without being removed, but it's pretty noteworthy.
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They market this as full grain, but it looks very slightly corrected. You can still see the pores, but the spaces between the pores is anything but smooth like you'd expect. It's possible it's been damaged somehow for aesthetic reasons without being removed, but it's pretty noteworthy.
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spectre6000
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"Cordovan" Calf - cow
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This one was HEAVY on the marketing ****... 'Cordovan Calf - Luxury Calfskin "Finished like Shell Cordovan"' It's supposedly calf skin finished like shell cordovan. Unless, of course, you know how shell cordovan is finished... Quotation marks legally required... I hate marketers... It's got a rich color, and it has a dull sheen. Similarities stop there. I THINK it's full grain... Maybe... Those lighter spots might be pores. Basically, it's just really heavily waxed and glazed with a lot of dye in a well chosen color. It's the most expensive hide here by nearly double, and I seriously wouldn't bother unless you just really need the look. I'm not one to pick things on appearance though...
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This one was HEAVY on the marketing ****... 'Cordovan Calf - Luxury Calfskin "Finished like Shell Cordovan"' It's supposedly calf skin finished like shell cordovan. Unless, of course, you know how shell cordovan is finished... Quotation marks legally required... I hate marketers... It's got a rich color, and it has a dull sheen. Similarities stop there. I THINK it's full grain... Maybe... Those lighter spots might be pores. Basically, it's just really heavily waxed and glazed with a lot of dye in a well chosen color. It's the most expensive hide here by nearly double, and I seriously wouldn't bother unless you just really need the look. I'm not one to pick things on appearance though...
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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Maryam Crazy Horse
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I'm pretty sure I've read that one of the big name manufacturers is using this hide. It's supposed to be full grain, but it looks either corrected, or very heavily worked. I don't see any pores... Maybe it's just so heavily waxed that everything is just a gooey mass... I dunno. Not what I expected. I'd want to see this profile side by side with some of the better Badalassis. Might be one of those cases where the cheaper cow hide is superior to the more expensive horse. Or maybe not. That fine grain layer is likely pretty critical from a wear resistance perspective if I'm to guess. I kinda have an idea cooking in the back of my brain about a wear testing rig...
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I'm pretty sure I've read that one of the big name manufacturers is using this hide. It's supposed to be full grain, but it looks either corrected, or very heavily worked. I don't see any pores... Maybe it's just so heavily waxed that everything is just a gooey mass... I dunno. Not what I expected. I'd want to see this profile side by side with some of the better Badalassis. Might be one of those cases where the cheaper cow hide is superior to the more expensive horse. Or maybe not. That fine grain layer is likely pretty critical from a wear resistance perspective if I'm to guess. I kinda have an idea cooking in the back of my brain about a wear testing rig...
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spectre6000
One of the Regulars
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Maryam Horserump TPR
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This one had a weird sanded looking striated finish to it. It was hard to find a clear section for imaging. Kinda disappointing too. Minimally processed horse must have a lot of scars and bites... This isn't as heavily stuffed as the Badalassis. Looks like it's fine grained and dense pretty much all the way through. Maybe it's that it's horse rump rather than front quarter, or maybe it's just a difference in the stuffing... Doesn't feel much different than the rest of the samples... Tough to say.
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This one had a weird sanded looking striated finish to it. It was hard to find a clear section for imaging. Kinda disappointing too. Minimally processed horse must have a lot of scars and bites... This isn't as heavily stuffed as the Badalassis. Looks like it's fine grained and dense pretty much all the way through. Maybe it's that it's horse rump rather than front quarter, or maybe it's just a difference in the stuffing... Doesn't feel much different than the rest of the samples... Tough to say.
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spectre6000
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Maryam Sauro - horse
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This is supposed to be full grain as well, but again it looks corrected. In the 180x photo, you can see some clear skin between the pores, and then it looks sanded down everywhere else... I think this is the last of my horse samples, and dammit if they all aren't manipulated in some way that makes it difficult to do much in the way of comparison! The profile photos show that it's pretty dry compared to the Badalassis. Looks fuzzy. Doesn't FEEL less, which begs the question of what you'd get if you gave the horse the same treatment. Maybe Maryam just isn't as good as Badalassi in the finishing department? Maybe it's a cost cutting/profit maximizing thing? If just being horse is enough to command a premium, why bother with an expensive finishing process? I don't know. Not sure if I'm not impressed with horse or if I'm not impressed with the horse market.
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This is supposed to be full grain as well, but again it looks corrected. In the 180x photo, you can see some clear skin between the pores, and then it looks sanded down everywhere else... I think this is the last of my horse samples, and dammit if they all aren't manipulated in some way that makes it difficult to do much in the way of comparison! The profile photos show that it's pretty dry compared to the Badalassis. Looks fuzzy. Doesn't FEEL less, which begs the question of what you'd get if you gave the horse the same treatment. Maybe Maryam just isn't as good as Badalassi in the finishing department? Maybe it's a cost cutting/profit maximizing thing? If just being horse is enough to command a premium, why bother with an expensive finishing process? I don't know. Not sure if I'm not impressed with horse or if I'm not impressed with the horse market.
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spectre6000
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Maryam Wash - horse
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I lied. One more horse. It looks like the "Wash" name probably means they get it good and wet and expanded, then rub it with something to give it a worn look. Not a fan. Also, makes it pretty difficult to make out the natural features. I wonder if there are any tanneries out there making a simple, natural horsehide? There are a ton of fat crystals in that last image, but it's not bacony. Probably says the bacon is wax heavy and more than just fat (fat is a shorter hydrocarbon chain than wax).
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I lied. One more horse. It looks like the "Wash" name probably means they get it good and wet and expanded, then rub it with something to give it a worn look. Not a fan. Also, makes it pretty difficult to make out the natural features. I wonder if there are any tanneries out there making a simple, natural horsehide? There are a ton of fat crystals in that last image, but it's not bacony. Probably says the bacon is wax heavy and more than just fat (fat is a shorter hydrocarbon chain than wax).
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spectre6000
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Kangaroo vegetable tanned, natural
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...And now for something COMPLETELY different! We've left the barnyard for this one. Then kept going and left the country. Then the continent. Then the hemisphere in two dimensions! Completely different critter in just about every way! The pores are very different to start, but tannage can make a difference. This is pretty sinkin' vanilla tannage here though. No dyes or grain manipulation. The ad copy states that it is drum stuffed, so there's the bacon for you. It looks like the top layer all the way through though! If the dense top layer is what's responsible for being hard wearing... This is only 1mm thick though, and that's as thick as this particular vendor has. It doesn't feel especially stiff or anything, but you can't tell anything about drape from such a small sample. Price wise, it's not cheap... $28 per sq. ft. compared to $15 for a random Badalassi back there, and I'll bet the yield is a lot less. Still a lot cheaper than that stupid "Cordovan" calf back there...
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...And now for something COMPLETELY different! We've left the barnyard for this one. Then kept going and left the country. Then the continent. Then the hemisphere in two dimensions! Completely different critter in just about every way! The pores are very different to start, but tannage can make a difference. This is pretty sinkin' vanilla tannage here though. No dyes or grain manipulation. The ad copy states that it is drum stuffed, so there's the bacon for you. It looks like the top layer all the way through though! If the dense top layer is what's responsible for being hard wearing... This is only 1mm thick though, and that's as thick as this particular vendor has. It doesn't feel especially stiff or anything, but you can't tell anything about drape from such a small sample. Price wise, it's not cheap... $28 per sq. ft. compared to $15 for a random Badalassi back there, and I'll bet the yield is a lot less. Still a lot cheaper than that stupid "Cordovan" calf back there...
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spectre6000
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Kangaroo, vegetable tanned, black
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This has been more manipulated than the natural sample. A lot more swelling between the pores. It's also less clear what's going on in profile. Sorry for all the rotation. These profile photos are hard... I saw it in the natural sample as well, but it looks like kangaroo has a few pretty major features in profile. The natural sample had them more going straight through, and this one has the more across. I'm no biologist, so I won't speculate on what they might be. Also interesting that one is more visible in black and vise versa.
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This has been more manipulated than the natural sample. A lot more swelling between the pores. It's also less clear what's going on in profile. Sorry for all the rotation. These profile photos are hard... I saw it in the natural sample as well, but it looks like kangaroo has a few pretty major features in profile. The natural sample had them more going straight through, and this one has the more across. I'm no biologist, so I won't speculate on what they might be. Also interesting that one is more visible in black and vise versa.
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