Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[Superfluous]

Perhaps WL just wanted 'more'.[huh]

Ding ding ding . . . we have a winner. Why? Plain and simple greed!

 

[Sloan1874]

Some sobering statistics regarding employee theft: http://www.statisticbrain.com/employee-theft-statistics/

Annual amount stolen annually from U.S. businesses by employees: $50,000,000,000

Percent of all business bankruptcies caused by employee theft: 33%

Amounts Stolen Percent
$1,000,000 and up: 25.3%
$500,000 – $999,999: 9.6%
$100,000 – $499,999: 28.2%
$10,000 – $49,999: 16.8%
$1,000 – $9,999: 7%
$1,000 or less: 1.9%

Median Amount Stolen: $175,000

Percent of total thefts committed by a manager: 37.1%

Average time office fraud lasts before detected: 2 years

Sources of Inventory Shrinkage in Retail
Employee Theft: 42.7%
Shoplifting: 35.6 %

One third of all corporate bankruptcies are due to employee theft! That is staggering.

These are some killers stats. It also shows how Will's theft sits in the general of things ie well above it.

 

[Fanch]

Kudos to all of the Calders for pulling the company out from under the most convoluted mess involving a family business I have seen in my lifetime!

 

[AdeeC]

By co-incidence I have been watching a cracking old French silent mellodrama serial from 1921 called The House Of Mystery in parallel to Sloan's episodes. Similar story outline with a touch more dramatic effect. Manager engineers highjack of owners textile factory. Turns the staff against owner and sets him up for murder and prison. Manager not only steals the business but attempts to steal owners wife and also daughter for his wicked ends. It could have been a whole lot worse for Aero.

 

[cordwangler]

I agree with Paddy, Smithy and others. The tone of many replies on this thread runs counter to the spirit of TFL. And it continues. This issue has affected some members, for sure, and it's a very unique situation, so people are going to talk about it. However, I can't think of any other issue not relating to vintage clothing that's been expanded on for so long, and with forum boundaries being expanded so far.

One thing I used to really like about TFL, before joining and while a member, was the focus on style from the past and old style garments. And I used to like the restraint of members in discussions. This applies in pretty much all other threads.

I don't recognise TFL in this zone, and that's sad.

 

[Big J]

I agree with Paddy, Smithy and others. The tone of many replies on this thread runs counter to the spirit of TFL. And it continues. This issue has affected some members, for sure, and it's a very unique situation, so people are going to talk about it. However, I can't think of any other issue not relating to vintage clothing that's been expanded on for so long, and with forum boundaries being expanded so far.

One thing I used to really like about TFL, before joining and while a member, was the focus on style from the past and old style garments. And I used to like the restraint of members in discussions. This applies in pretty much all other threads.

I don't recognise TFL in this zone, and that's sad.

You're entitled to your opinion. One that I don't agree with. But that's fine. I have noticed that one of the voices critical of this thread seems to have a history of only posting comments on threads about Aero. What could that mean?
I myself was critical of this thread early on, and posted that I thought it should be closed on two seperate occasions, but I've changed my mind. I changed my mind because of the tone in which some people are criticizing this thread. As far as I know, receiving stolen goods is a crime, it would be interesting to go back and search the comments of those who disapprove of this thread to see if anyone got a 'bargain, brand new' Aero during the years when WL was stealing stock and selling it cheap? Maybe some members are worried about the legality of items in their closet?
Who can say.
However, there are hundreds (thousands?) of threads on the Lounge that I ignore, and people who I deeply disagree with.
I never tell them that they shouldn't comment.
Perhaps I'll speak to you again on another thread sometime.

 

[AdeeC]

I

I agree with Paddy, Smithy and others. The tone of many replies on this thread runs counter to the spirit of TFL. And it continues. This issue has affected some members, for sure, and it's a very unique situation, so people are going to talk about it. However, I can't think of any other issue not relating to vintage clothing that's been expanded on for so long, and with forum boundaries being expanded so far.

One thing I used to really like about TFL, before joining and while a member, was the focus on style from the past and old style garments. And I used to like the restraint of members in discussions. This applies in pretty much all other threads.

I don't recognise TFL in this zone, and that's sad.

I think it is good to see this saga fleshed out. I first became aware of this when there was a lot of fairly vituperative stuff from all directions a while back playing for hearts and minds of punters stuck in the middle. All of it a lot worse than posted on this thread. Who knew who or what to believe? As it now has played out in court, some truths have been flushed out.

 

[Two Types]

I find these discussions about the tone of this thread very interesting. I speak as someone with no interest in leather jackets and, as such, no opinions on the various products and competing companies.

I don't think there has been anything in the tone of the discussions that makes me think they are contrary to the spirit of the FL. Mostly it has been frank discussion about the behaviour of a criminal and his curious justifications for his crimes.

As someone who mostly spends his time on the vintage suits/ties areas of the FL (an area generating far less interest and comment than it did three or four years ago) it is refreshing to see that there are still genuine discussions going on (even if they are about modern leather jackets ....).

 

[Peter Mackin]

I find these discussions about the tone of this thread very interesting. I speak as someone with no interest in leather jackets and, as such, no opinions on the various products and competing companies.

I don't think there has been anything in the tone of the discussions that makes me think they are contrary to the spirit of the FL. Mostly it has been frank discussion about the behaviour of a criminal and his curious justifications for his crimes.

As someone who mostly spends his time on the vintage suits/ties areas of the FL (an area generating far less interest and comment than it did three or four years ago) it is refreshing to see that there are still genuine discussions going on (even if they are about modern leather jackets ....).

Well said sir..

 

[Don Tomaso]

I personally don't think the "tone" in this thread is wrong in any sense, I could also not relate to the accusations Paddy made, calling it gleeful or mobbish. We're discussing a crime that has taken place in a factory many of us "know" at least from their products, and we do it with some vigor and enthusiasm. Finally, we're all grown up people and most of the points made and the way they are expressed are entirely sensible and well-behaved.
I want to raise one specific and one general point, if I may. first the specific. Superfluous presented stats about employees embeezeling funds or stealing company property. Striking numbers, to be honest. On the other side, there are legal "takings" that are quite astonishing, too. I know about managments work-contracts which explicitly allow the top-management to literally take money out of the company in vast amounts as a reward for their "achievements". Unfortunately the "achievements" necessary are so low that it's vistually impossible to miss them. In public traded companies you can see the management buying shares for 1/3 of the market price only to sell them - now for the actual value - just a second later. Half a million, just so, because the 1 -2 million salary a year isn't enough. What I want to say is that we have a "take the money and run"-philosophy all around. Everybody feels entitled to take what he gets as long as it is at least a bit legal. No need for being "right", "just", or "honest". Don't get me wrong, what WL did WAS wrong, theft, breech of trust etc. But most of all it was a pet crime. Stealing leather jackets from the factory to sell them on ebay! C'me on, the REAL guy do that much quicker, bigger, with less effort, and, first of all, they don't go to jail.
The second comment is mainly to the "put the guy in jail and good is"-people. Some of us are interested in the "why". Why did WL what he did? You guys always misunderstand the wish to understand the motives of a wrongdoer with the wish to exculpate him. Nothing could be farer from my motives! Maybe I simply admit that people are more facetted and that the honest person of today might be the culprit of tomorrow? There must be a reason the prayer goes "and lead us not into temptation".

 

[Big J]

I personally don't think the "tone" in this thread is wrong in any sense, I could also not relate to the accusations Paddy made, calling it gleeful or mobbish. We're discussing a crime that has taken place in a factory many of us "know" at least from their products, and we do it with some vigor and enthusiasm. Finally, we're all grown up people and most of the points made and the way they are expressed are entirely sensible and well-behaved.
I want to raise one specific and one general point, if I may. first the specific. Superfluous presented stats about employees embeezeling funds or stealing company property. Striking numbers, to be honest. On the other side, there are legal "takings" that are quite astonishing, too. I know about managments work-contracts which explicitly allow the top-management to literally take money out of the company in vast amounts as a reward for their "achievements". Unfortunately the "achievements" necessary are so low that it's vistually impossible to miss them. In public traded companies you can see the management buying shares for 1/3 of the market price only to sell them - now for the actual value - just a second later. Half a million, just so, because the 1 -2 million salary a year isn't enough. What I want to say is that we have a "take the money and run"-philosophy all around. Everybody feels entitled to take what he gets as long as it is at least a bit legal. No need for being "right", "just", or "honest". Don't get me wrong, what WL did WAS wrong, theft, breech of trust etc. But most of all it was a pet crime. Stealing leather jackets from the factory to sell them on ebay! C'me on, the REAL guy do that much quicker, bigger, with less effort, and, first of all, they don't go to jail.
The second comment is mainly to the "put the guy in jail and good is"-people. Some of us are interested in the "why". Why did WL what he did? You guys always misunderstand the wish to understand the motives of a wrongdoer with the wish to exculpate him. Nothing could be farer from my motives! Maybe I simply admit that people are more facetted and that the honest person of today might be the culprit of tomorrow? There must be a reason the prayer goes "and lead us not into temptation".

I guess he did it because he could.
Temptation is everywhere. I am aware of the fact I'm tempted, and that self-awareness allows me to step back from going through the looking glass.
I reckon that WL thought he would either leave Aero in such a mess he'd never get found out, or he thought Aero would get bought by Sandy Alexander and neither Sandy or Ken would ever discover his theft, or that Alexander Leathers would force Aero out of business by his poaching of staff and patterns, and that his crimes would be unseen amongst a collapsing Aero?
It doesn't matter. Why did he do it? Because he thought no one would find out. Biggest mistake ever.

 

[Blackadder]

I don't see anything wrong with this thread. People have different loyalties and standards. With products come the brands. There are many loyal customers here who feel personally betrayed by WL. This type of loyalty happens as with those who will only purchase from certain countries. Since I have no such loyalty (I will just look at the price vs value ), I will probably never understand them but that doesn't mean they are bad or wrong. It is like Realists vs Romantists. In fact, this type of discussion should help one side understands the other, so long as it does not get out of hand and become a shouting match. Just remember this is a discussion.

 

[Dinerman]

Neehow!
thx for your valuable input.
First a thread like this in your wonderfull people loving country...I doubt it...just tell us how many websites are blocked as per today...l
With all due and very humble respect...here I can call...
I fly in and out weekly to shanghai an beijing, and this since approx 16 years out of 26 years of a full rank Cpt. hence I may give my humble opinion of what will happen soon in your wonderfull people loving country ( BTW... we all need PRC to economicaly survive including me and my Co.)...
Looking always for the cheapest will spin down to low **** low quality low social life...If this happen in your wonderful workers paradise,the world will be in war...since (prc )people republic china will have no $ or € heaven anymore...starving workers in their slave-like prisons will block it all.
BURMA/ MYANMAR/VIETNAM/AFRICA/BANGLADESH, are already challenging your production industry....by all means and in all sectors...I fly these Manager in and out weekly..!...tell me!
BTW it happened already when every year ...In PRC... in china prior and after Luna / Chinese new year ,the All public transport were messed up for a few days....REVOLUTION...LIKE IN 1949, like in Tiananmen...
If PRC is not adjusting to international standards very very very soon...buy yourself a big security bunker or a ticket out of People Republic of Crr.
With all due respect and from flying in and out weekly....and thanks for the bad air and air poisoning all of us have to endure when in Beijing ...or Shanghai...Worst in the world...( staying in Hyatt hotels)
But cheap jackets...sure...It will do it for you...for others...!.
?
Cheers

Please keep things on topic and civil.

 

[thor]

So, about that Aeroleather Clothing trial update....

 

[Capesofwrath]

I think this is better. But then I’ve always liked the surreal.

 

[Sloan1874]

Final trial section up tonight! *keeps typing*

 

[Blackadder]

Thank you Dinerman.:eusa_clap

 

[Otter]

Agreed, you in no way warranted that Blackadder.

 

[ProteinNerd]

I've been sitting here scratching my head re the complains to keep the discussion civil......looks like the mods are on top of it and are removing the offending posts before I get a chance to read them. Thanks for the quotes Dinerman, cleared it up for me.

Now all I'm wondering about is what on earth he was talking about.

 

[Fanch]

Sloan, that was a very nice summation of the prosecution and defense points of view in which obviously the prosecution's case prevailed. Thanks again for your efforts with all of this.