The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[Judgmentalist]

A great one to start with, but beware, Borsalinos run at least one size small. I know I'm a few sizes smaller than you, but that's one that's going to fit me.

Yes, I knew that when I got it. I got it to mess with. Who knows, I may buy a size 60 hat block and see what happens. Time will tell.

 

[Judgmentalist]

Without further adieu... may I present the "White Borsalino!" Featuring the classic and very-much-not-a-later-repair visible reed construction lol.

This is a very nice hat. My immediate frustration upon opening the package came from two things:

1.) The felt is stiff. Stiff compared to the very soft and lovely felt on the aforementioned $50 beater Borsa from earlier. Right or wrong this just gave me an impression of lower quality. Feel free to educate me as needed.

2.) The brim is just a smidge wide for my taste - in this style of hat - at this exact moment. So, I put it on, and imagined my wife (who happens to be out of town at the moment) once again grimacing in my general direction prior to suggesting that I may, in fact, be the world's first actual "not a hat guy". She is coming around. My brims are getting wider bit by bit.

Now that this hat is definitely mine, it is starting to agree with me a little more. You may note that in one of the pictures there is a "61" written inside this hat. This is the third time, across multiple different brands, that I have found sizing information written inside the hat that disagrees slightly with the tag. If anybody knows anything about this, or if I am wrong about something, please let me know.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Now that this hat is definitely mine, it is starting to agree with me a little more. You may note that in one of the pictures there is a "61" written inside this hat. This is the third time, across multiple different brands, that I have found sizing information written inside the hat that disagrees slightly with the tag. If anybody knows anything about this, or if I am wrong about something, please let me know.

The size of your Borsalino, made for the American market, is a US 7 1/2, or a 60 for Europeans, but Borsalino has always used the French size scale, so in the EU it would be 6 1/2. There are quite often discrepancies between the measurements of the worker who measured before the trimmings, i.e., the sweatband, and the person who then measured the hat to determine the final size. During the manufacturing process, it often happens that the "naked" hat is a size or a half larger than after the sweatband is applied. The size was decided after the final trimmings. To my knowledge, Borsalino has never offered English sizes.

 

[jeffgarf]

The size of your Borsalino, made for the American market, is a US 7 1/2, or a 60 for Europeans, but Borsalino has always used the French size scale, so in the EU it would be 6 1/2. There are quite often discrepancies between the measurements of the worker who measured before the trimmings, i.e., the sweatband, and the person who then measured the hat to determine the final size. During the manufacturing process, it often happens that the "naked" hat is a size or a half larger than after the sweatband is applied. The size was decided after the final trimmings. To my knowledge, Borsalino has never offered English sizes.

May of their stickers applied post manufacturing to the sweatband, I believe in the States, do occasionally reference the UK size, as well.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Without further adieu... may I present the "White Borsalino!" Featuring the classic and very-much-not-a-later-repair visible reed construction lol.

In Piedmontese, the word panera (feminine noun) means cream or milk cream. This is the color of the felt according to Borsalino. When it comes to the details of its construction, it's crucial to keep in mind that the model you purchased is a copy of an American hat due to the shape, proportions, and rigidity that a hat of that type must have for American customers. Borsalino was a master of marketing.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

May of their stickers applied post manufacturing to the sweatband, I believe in the States, do occasionally reference the UK size, as well

With all due respect, Jeff, I don't think so. Borsalino hats in the UK are sized on the French scale.

 

[jeffgarf]

With all due respect, Jeff, I don't think so. Borsalino hats in the UK are sized on the French scale.

So, I just happen to have one here with me as we're typing.

 

[Judgmentalist]

In Piedmontese, the word panera (feminine noun) means cream or milk cream. This is the color of the felt according to Borsalino. When it comes to the details of its construction, it's crucial to keep in mind that the model you purchased is a copy of an American hat due to the shape, proportions, and rigidity that a hat of that type must have for American customers. Borsalino was a master of marketing.

Thank you for this information. I’m aware of the word panera in Italian/Spanish/Latin languages, and I knew in this case that it was a color designation, but I was unaware of the regional dialect “Piedmontese” and that the word has such a different meaning.

I need to do more research into traditional Borsalino construction, regional adaptations, etc. I’m aware that this hat is not the most traditional expression of a Borsalino hat, and I intend to get a very traditional example at some point. I’m entering a period of slower expansion and hopefully more thoughtful consideration of my hat collection going forward.

As for my calling it “white Borsalino” that was just meant as my mental nickname for this hat. All my hats have nicknames that I think of them by; “white Borsa” (I actually shorten it in my head) “beater Borsa” “weird Optimo”, and so on.

Native English speakers often refer to anything in the white, cream, off-white, ivory, etc. family by the generic term “white” as a shorthand.

In my case, I have a linen/silk suit in roughly this color that I call my “white suit” - mainly because it feels pretentious to me to say “cream” or “ivory” - and the suit is so inherently pretentious I feel the need to limit that function of my personality as much as possible in this case lol.

I’m excited to get a picture for the “wearing” thread in that suit and hat - hopefully this Sunday. The longer I sit with this hat the more I love it.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

but I was unaware of the regional dialect “Piedmontese” and that the word has such a different meaning.

In Italy there are many dialects spoken and Borsalino used often name of color in Piedmont dialect as "gris fer" and others to designate a particular color. Alessandria is in Piedmont, the west region along with Valled'Aosta and Liguria

 

[Judgmentalist]

2007 (pre-bankruptcy) Borsalino Alessandria - according to Ebay at least. If you guys want to confirm/deny on the era that will be much appreciated.

Just arrived today. This is a beautiful hat. Lovely, soft felt. I'm a sucker for soft felt, apparently, as much as I like a structured brim. Not sure how to resolve the conflict. Oh wait - more hats ought to do the trick.

Off to find a decent steak and a nice bottle of wine in a bit.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

So, I just happen to have one here with me as we're typing.

Jeff, this is an "international tag" to cover every market when Borsalino reduced the sizes tag to one to avoid confusion

 

[jeffgarf]

Jeff, this is an "international tag" to cover every market when Borsalino reduced the sizes tag to one to avoid confusion

Thank you. That is the tag I was trying to identify when I mentioned not part of the manufacturing. I will make a post on a different thread shortly about other manufacturers using this same tag to make consumers think they are buying "Italian" made hats (ie Borsalino quality) when in reality they are likely Hungarian-made.

 

[jeffgarf]

A Buio model from the more recent Fu Lazzaro line in the color Rodio.

 

[Thundercolt]

Country Style Borsalino

 

[jeffgarf]

Posing here for the fans. I had the opportunity to visit the Borsalino store here in Jerusalem. Obviously (if you've read many of my other posts), this store serves a specific clientele that is looking for black fedoras in various brim and crown sizes. This store was the ultimate for that type of hat. However, I was pleased to see they had other colors and styles (including caps) that were available, as befitting a store carrying the Borsalino name.

I couldn't get a good photo of it, but they had a velour feeling felt fedora in a shade of blue I had never seen before. The model was called Zaffiro (sapphire, in Italian, I believe) but they also had it in black. Very similar in feel to the old Marque Gran Luxe style. I think it was between $5-600 at the exchange rate. It is in the counter photo below on the far left. The color is not well reproduced. It was definitely giving me an itch I could not afford to scratch.

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All in all, a very fun morning.

 

[Judgmentalist]

Posing here for the fans. I had the opportunity to visit the Borsalino store here in Jerusalem. Obviously (if you've read many of my other posts), this store serves a specific clientele that is looking for black fedoras in various brim and crown sizes. This store was the ultimate for that type of hat. However, I was pleased to see they had other colors and styles (including caps) that were available, as befitting a store carrying the Borsalino name.

I couldn't get a good photo of it, but they had a velour feeling felt fedora in a shade of blue I had never seen before. The model was called Zaffiro (sapphire, in Italian, I believe) but they also had it in black. Very similar in feel to the old Marque Gran Luxe style. I think it was between $5-600 at the exchange rate.

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A very fun morning.

Ah I’m so jealous - I would love to plan a trip to the area one of these days

 

[jeffgarf]

Ah I’m so jealous - I would love to plan a trip to the area one of these days

I'd say, of course Jerusalem is a great religious experience, but if you like hats, the store is specifically a different kind of religious experience..

 

[Judgmentalist]

This ribbon is interesting to me. Is this common or traditional? Unusual?

 

[Judgmentalist]

Two new hats, courtesy of @wsmontana. My "green Borsa" and a Borsalino cashmere flat cap. Bill's hats are batting .1000 as far as I am concerned, which is more than I can say for some of my more eccentric purchases, lol

green Borsa - my only green hat thus far

Borsalino cashmere flat cap

 

[Judgmentalist]

Two new hats, courtesy of @wsmontana. My "green Borsa" and a Borsalino cashmere flat cap. Bill's hats are batting .1000 as far as I am concerned, which is more than I can say for some of my more eccentric purchases, lol

green Borsa - my only green hat thus far
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Borsalino cashmere flat cap
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Borsalino cashmere flat cap