Finds and Deals - Leather Jacket Edition

[AHP91]

When it comes to vintage, Cal is underpriced and Buco/Hercules is overpriced. Pricing isn’t necessarily indicative of value. Pricing is determined by supply and demand.

Generally though, stitching is a pretty easy DIY fix. I wouldn’t shy away from loose stitching when it comes to buying vintage.

Too broad of a statement to make. Buco and Hercules are companies that spanned over 80 years now and produced some incredibly desirable jackets. You’re comparing Cals which are newer, can be found unlabeled, and are pretty widespread.

 

[Rick Dalton]

When it comes to vintage, Cal is underpriced and Buco/Hercules is overpriced. Pricing isn’t necessarily indicative of value. Pricing is determined by supply and demand.

Generally though, stitching is a pretty easy DIY fix. I wouldn’t shy away from loose stitching when it comes to buying vintage.

Yeah, I agree. To each their own, but personally I think Cal jackets have a cooler design than Buco (I know, I know—people will come after me for saying that ).

They’ve got that superhero/Terminator silhouette—bold and striking with those big lapels, but still kind of understated since there’s no over-the-top hardware, studs, or crazy pocket configurations. It’s a confident design without trying too hard. And hey, they were even worn by some of the greats in showbiz

 

[Rick Dalton]

Too broad of a statement to make. Buco and Hercules are companies that spanned over 80 years now and produced some incredibly desirable jackets. You’re comparing Cals which are newer, can be found unlabeled, and are pretty widespread.

Fair point about “widespread” —like @jchance said, pricing often reflects how widespread something is, not necessarily how good it is.

That said, Cal has a pretty long history too. The company goes back to Star Glove in the 1920s, and their classic CHP cross-zip design dates back to around 1945, so it's not like they just popped up recently.


I’ve never owned a Buco, so I’m genuinely curious — would you say the overall quality of Cals is lower, or is it mostly about rarity and branding?

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

Too broad of a statement to make. Buco and Hercules are companies that spanned over 80 years now and produced some incredibly desirable jackets. You’re comparing Cals which are newer, can be found unlabeled, and are pretty widespread.

I disagree about dating. A 1950s Cal and a 1950s Buco are the same age. They are also the same age as a 1950s Hercules.

I might not have felt the need to disagree about dating had I not handled the Cal that I posted. Honestly, that Cal was more fun to wear than the 1950s Buco I have tried as well as all the modern Real McCoys Bucos I have handled. Those Bucos were all fantastic jackets but the 60s Cal that I posted had something special that outshined them all.

As for widespread, I don't know. I could go on eBay right now and drop $1800 on a very nice Buco in my size. I cannot do the same for a Cal because there aren't any good ones in my size at any price. So "more widespread" is not accurate to my eyes at this moment.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

Too broad of a statement to make. Buco and Hercules are companies that spanned over 80 years now and produced some incredibly desirable jackets. You’re comparing Cals which are newer, can be found unlabeled, and are pretty widespread.

BTW, according to Google Cal leathers is oldest: they started in 1927 as Star Glove. Buco was founded in 1933 and the Hercules leather jacket was first made available in the S&R Catalogue in 1935. This according to Google (not sure I trust that, but the dates are close enough to be six of one half dozen of the other imo).

 

[Camel24hrs]

Just picked up a 1964 original G1 US Navy flight jacket for 160 dollars. Should have it by the end of the week. Got it for a daughter. Here are the listing pics.

Cool thing is my wife was born in 1964. Jacket is the same age as her. I just recently bought a size 46 Foster G1 in same condition that was made in 1959, the same year I was born.

 

[jchance]

I disagree about dating. A 1950s Cal and a 1950s Buco are the same age. They are also the same age as a 1950s Hercules.

I might not have felt the need to disagree about dating had I not handled the Cal that I posted. Honestly, that Cal was more fun to wear than the 1950s Buco I have tried as well as all the modern Real McCoys Bucos I have handled. Those Bucos were all fantastic jackets but the 60s Cal that I posted had something special that outshined them all.

As for widespread, I don't know. I could go on eBay right now and drop $1800 on a very nice Buco in my size. I cannot do the same for a Cal because there aren't any good ones in my size at any price. So "more widespread" is not accurate to my eyes at this moment.

You make a good point. It’s fair to compare a 1950s Red Label Cal to a 1950s Buco to a 1950s Hercules from the same time period.

Putting quality aside, I’m sure people have their own preferences, favorites, and likes/dislikes. But a Red Label Cal can be found for $500-800, a 1950s Buco for $800-2000, and a 1950s Hercules for $700-1500. Would you disagree with me that Cal is underpriced and Buco/Hercules is overpriced? I’m not even talking about value, just pricing, as I have distinguished between the two earlier.

Sears Hercules is no longer around. Buco is also defunct, but its former employees went on to start Brooks. Brooks from 1960s-onward isn’t even comparable to Cal from the same time period. Modern Brooks is like a mall brand, whereas a modern used Cal can still be found for cheap, $200-400. How is Cal not underpriced for its value?

 

[blm14]

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

two tone schott d-pocket, size 38. Just under $550. I would love one of these in size 48 lol

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

two tone schott d-pocket, size 38. Just under $550. I would love one of these in size 48 lol

View attachment 718501 View attachment 718502

Schott's take on the Trojan Night Rider

 

[AHP91]

You make a good point. It’s fair to compare a 1950s Red Label Cal to a 1950s Buco to a 1950s Hercules from the same time period.

Putting quality aside, I’m sure people have their own preferences, favorites, and likes/dislikes. But a Red Label Cal can be found for $500-800, a 1950s Buco for $800-2000, and a 1950s Hercules for $700-1500. Would you disagree with me that Cal is underpriced and Buco/Hercules is overpriced? I’m not even talking about value, just pricing, as I have distinguished between the two earlier.

Sears Hercules is no longer around. Buco is also defunct, but its former employees went on to start Brooks. Brooks from 1960s-onward isn’t even comparable to Cal from the same time period. Modern Brooks is like a mall brand, whereas a modern used Cal can still be found for cheap, $200-400. How is Cal not underpriced for its value?

Here are a couple of quick photos of some rare Bucos. The second jacket is one of the coolest jackets ever and would probably cost the same as a used car if available.

Hercules has had some incredible jackets made under their label, notably one of the most iconic jackets ever:

So yes, some people on eBay want more for their 1950s Hercules cause they heard of the name. If you like how a Cal looks, yes it's a cool jacket that can be had for relatively cheap. But to overlook the incredible history of the other two brands is nonsense. This is the vintage world for you - collectors and people like odd patterns, rare designs, cool linings, cool labels. A Cal is a good no nonsense jacket. Some of their oldest productions are quite amazing. You can't just bunch together a couple of active listings from eBay and make any conclusion from that. So yes, if you feel like a million bucks wearing any particular jacket, then there's your grail. There is some science behind the world of vintage and this is a glimpse.

For good measure, here is a crazy cool Star Glove

This is the Finds and Deals thread, but if you are interested in the history of vintage there are some very cool posts on this site. Good luck

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

But to overlook the incredible history of the other two brands is nonsense.

I do not intend to respond much more but only because this isn't the place for an extended comparison discussion. You make some good points that triggered some thoughts for me, but this isn't the place for it.

However, I do want to point out that the only person here who has overlooked an incredible history is you.

I get that a person's argument becomes clearer to them as they go along, and I appreciate that Cals are primarily (though not exclusively) know for one particular aesthetic whereas Bucos had some more unique offerings; but none of that was your original argument.

You simply claimed that a Cal with very minor stitching problems is not worth $400 and then carried on to dismiss the brand's entire history. I mean that was you doing that, nobody else.

Maybe take this to the Cal thread and hammer out your arguments there, but just don't gaslight us.

 

[photo2u]

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

two tone schott d-pocket, size 38. Just under $550. I would love one of these in size 48 lol

View attachment 718501 View attachment 718502

For the price, this Schotts are an excellent option to the LW. I have seen them in the flesh from their old production. Several years ago, The panda men sold his at a bargain. Of course, I missed it and someone pick it up within minutes. LOL. I do have a Schott produced jacket with one of those other labels for the New Jersey company. However, is not this thicker HH which is very nice and often wear this hide in a Schott j24 type produced some 20 years ago.

 

[handymike]

That's some jacket!...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/205224680799

 

[jchance]

I’ve been on this forum for quite some time and I’ve already read a ton of past discussions. Sometimes there are respectful disagreements, by nature of having different opinions on a shared platform. Often times the arguments pass one another without even directly engaging the points made, and that’s ok. Sometimes people get offended and overreacted, which I don’t really understand. People have different personalities and come from different backgrounds.

I can’t say that my ignore list is zero, but it doesn’t include people that have been helpful to me. In fact, @AHP91 has entertained and answered many of my questions. He shares my rare size and has a lot of good stuff for sale.

Back to the thread, that two-tone Schott Trojan is on JP site for $360, prior to any coupon codes.

https://buyee.jp/mercari/item/m92169632266

 

[Authenticstyle]

I’ve been on this forum for quite some time and I’ve already read a ton of past discussions. Sometimes there are respectful disagreements, by nature of having different opinions on a shared platform. Often times the arguments pass one another without even directly engaging the points made, and that’s ok. Sometimes people get offended and overreacted, which I don’t really understand. People have different personalities and come from different backgrounds.

I can’t say that my ignore list is zero, but it doesn’t include people that have been helpful to me. In fact, @AHP91 has entertained and answered many of my questions. He shares my rare size and has a lot of good stuff for sale.

Back to the thread, that two-tone Schott Trojan is on JP site for $360, prior to any coupon codes.

http://[URL]https://buyee.jp/mercari/item/m92169632266

[/URL]

I will say that @Will Zach was very helpful to me and I never knew him to be anything other than a gentleman on here. That being said, it's interactions like those you reference that made me eschew this forum. People get nasty behind their keyboards and threads are constantly derailed.

 

[BarryMcCockiner_PhD]

I will say that @Will Zach was very helpful to me and I never knew him to be anything other than a gentleman on here. That being said, it's interactions like those you reference that made me eschew this forum. People get nasty behind their keyboards and threads are constantly derailed.

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx1H1_IHeT6O4uZr_EtR3gk0b2jpA-CYEU?si=4ixmZz17EkHnsCHz

 

[blm14]

BG size 46 BIN $100

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

 

[blm14]

All weather size 42, BIN $220

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

 

[lina]

Only if you want to instantly be the talk of your neighborhood!

https://ebay.us/m/EdKUgl

Maybe @ton312 ?

 

[Madhouse27]

Great deal on a size 46 Branded Garments crosszip. Cheap shipping too!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/257027961813?_skw=leather+jacket+46&itmmeta=01K0ST8YB2ZYC5BAK2B7FG5HP3&hash=item3bd80f73d5:g:3bgAAeSw5QxofqV7&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1dES7l6PE7pv2u1EVPmc9d%2BFqW8mBOS8u4fVby8GyLMK0GYvcP9HXbTmEi9klCJKAOKbuHvTXGTH1rB49bnrk3mueDHzs1I%2B8DBWyKhp1IhaV%2FSWtTxyDSlBmVb9q3KqSmNhpickH5MYApZ9XJRrHu8AOmctLVKXxSpaiu7cHj0XP9UQiNlsZuEYMgn%2Fx97a%2FtBg%2FxIEl3jEFLMYG%2Fekw3Ho6Nryw