Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Peacoat]

Thanks for replying, sadly that pic was taken from the sellers advert and was the only tag image they included in the sale portfolio of pics. The coat itself is an 8 button showing example, so if I understand the info contained in this thread it's WWII and before.

Yes, this will be WWII or before.

Thank you, that's what I'm hoping. I'm not a jumper wearer normally, hate the things, but I am hoping I can wear a nice informal shirt underneath without crushing it, or a shirt and tie for work when I don't have to be totally booted and suited.

I think you will have plenty of room for that.

 

[Gibby's dog]

Yes, this will be WWII or before.

I think you will have plenty of room for that.

I don't want too much room, I want it to have a fitted look but not so fitted that it crumples a pressed shirt, but not so roomy that it looks like a tent. I have an overcoat that is perfect for the less formal aspects of my life. It's a size 38 chest and it's a close fit, I can wear a shirt and tie underneath or an informal shirt, that's it, which is exactly what I want it for. That's what I want a peacoat for too. But then the overcoat is cut much larger to accommodate a suit underneath, which on me it cannot comfortably do.

 

[Edward]

Looks like a good lace to ask (sorry if this is a repeat, couldn't find it mentioned.) How good is the issue peacoat offered by US Wings? I was considering ponying up for a Schott 740N as a replacement for my beloved old Werner Mahlberg West German equivalent, BUT Schott have killed it for me by putting a very obvious logo on the chest (even more glaring on the blue than on the black version).

 

[Aloysius]

Looks like a good lace to ask (sorry if this is a repeat, couldn't find it mentioned.) How good is the issue peacoat offered by US Wings? I was considering ponying up for a Schott 740N as a replacement for my beloved old Werner Mahlberg West German equivalent, BUT Schott have killed it for me by putting a very obvious logo on the chest (even more glaring on the blue than on the black version).

Where are you seeing the logo? Might be a spinoff line.

 

[JAGG]

I don't want too much room, I want it to have a fitted look but not so fitted that it crumples a pressed shirt, but not so roomy that it looks like a tent. I have an overcoat that is perfect for the less formal aspects of my life. It's a size 38 chest and it's a close fit, I can wear a shirt and tie underneath or an informal shirt, that's it, which is exactly what I want it for. That's what I want a peacoat for too. But then the overcoat is cut much larger to accommodate a suit underneath, which on me it cannot comfortably do.

Good work finding a 22” wwii Peacoat in good shape! I was in the same position as you a few weeks ago, and for every size 40 and above, there seem to be 100 coats with sizes in the 30’s, often great condition and really cheap. Size 40-plus don’t necessarily sell for more, but they certainly seem to sell much more quickly.

I don’t know squat compared to Peacoat, but finding a wwii with a size tag seems quite rare from the limited searching I did. It looks like your 22” is labeled size 40, which is good to know. BTW, as you probably saw, the later models, 1960s and up, seem much more likely to still have intact size tag designations, which makes it much easier to know the size you’ll be getting w/o relying on user measurements (if any).

As far as size, I think the 22” should fit you well. I have a 40” chest, 41” fully inhaled, and have plenty of room inside the 22” width coat I found. The limiting factor for me is shoulders, but if you can wear a 38” coat then shoulders should be fine for you too.

If you are expecting delivery soon, did you find it in the UK? Post a link if you want (safe since you already bought it). I imagine Peacoat can figure out a surprising amount from the seller pics.

 

[Peacoat]

Looks like a good lace to ask (sorry if this is a repeat, couldn't find it mentioned.) How good is the issue peacoat offered by US Wings? I was considering ponying up for a Schott 740N as a replacement for my beloved old Werner Mahlberg West German equivalent, BUT Schott have killed it for me by putting a very obvious logo on the chest (even more glaring on the blue than on the black version).

I'm not aware that US Wings ever had a contract for the Navy peacoat. Sterlingwear of Boston held the contract for the last 25 or 30 years of the life of the peacoat. Before that it was Vi Mil, the military branch of Viking Military which later became Sterlingwear, I believe. And prior to that I haven't seen the name of US Wings on the label of an issue peacoat. I doubt they ever had a contract.

Good work finding a 22” wwii Peacoat in good shape! I was in the same position as you a few weeks ago, and for every size 40 and above, there seem to be 100 coats with sizes in the 30’s, often great condition and really cheap. Size 40-plus don’t necessarily sell for more, but they certainly seem to sell much more quickly.

I don’t know squat compared to Peacoat, but finding a wwii with a size tag seems quite rare from the limited searching I did. It looks like your 22” is labeled size 40, which is good to know. BTW, as you probably saw, the later models, 1960s and up, seem much more likely to still have intact size tag designations, which makes it much easier to know the size you’ll be getting w/o relying on user measurements (if any).

As far as size, I think the 22” should fit you well. I have a 40” chest, 41” fully inhaled, and have plenty of room inside the 22” width coat I found. The limiting factor for me is shoulders, but if you can wear a 38” coat then shoulders should be fine for you too.

If you are expecting delivery soon, did you find it in the UK? Post a link if you want (safe since you already bought it). I imagine Peacoat can figure out a surprising amount from the seller pics.

If a peacoat with a p2p of 22" is labeled a size 40, then it is mislabeled. The actual size of the coat would be a 42.

 

[Edward]

I'm not aware that US Wings ever had a contract for the Navy peacoat. Sterlingwear of Boston held the contract for the last 25 or 30 years of the life of the peacoat. Before that it was Vi Mil, the military branch of Viking Military which later became Sterlingwear, I believe. And prior to that I haven't seen the name of US Wings on the label of an issue peacoat. I doubt they ever had a contract.

Doing a bit more digging around, I think it is a Sterlingwear - "The Classic" model - that US Wings have on their website. Not a brand that I can find here in the UK (all the options here seem to be either a more expensive Schott - with an embroidered chest logo - and a much cheaper, six-button option from the likes of MilTec and Rothco). It does seem to be widely available in the US, though. Perhaps worth my while putting it on the shopping list to try one out when I next make it to the US?

 

[Edward]

Where are you seeing the logo? Might be a spinoff line.

View attachment 664601

Can't see one on that shot... UK suppliers have them on the wearer's left, just above and to the side of the top button. If you hit the magnifier on the link here you'll see it: https://www.stuartslondon.com/schott-nyc-us-740-peacoat-navy-p8125 These are the 740N, which is being sold over here as the 'milspec' option. Maybe they've added a logo for the UK market? (Expensive logo, given how much more these cost over here! ).

 

[Peacoat]

Doing a bit more digging around, I think it is a Sterlingwear - "The Classic" model - that US Wings have on their website. Not a brand that I can find here in the UK (all the options here seem to be either a more expensive Schott - with an embroidered chest logo - and a much cheaper, six-button option from the likes of MilTec and Rothco). It does seem to be widely available in the US, though. Perhaps worth my while putting it on the shopping list to try one out when I next make it to the US?

I'm not a fan of the civilian "peacoats." They really aren't peacoats, but civilian copies thereof. The best of the civilian copies is Sterlingwear as they had the contract for issue peacoats for years. But they still aren't real peacoats.

 

[Gibby's dog]

Good work finding a 22” wwii Peacoat in good shape! I was in the same position as you a few weeks ago, and for every size 40 and above, there seem to be 100 coats with sizes in the 30’s, often great condition and really cheap. Size 40-plus don’t necessarily sell for more, but they certainly seem to sell much more quickly.

I don’t know squat compared to Peacoat, but finding a wwii with a size tag seems quite rare from the limited searching I did. It looks like your 22” is labeled size 40, which is good to know. BTW, as you probably saw, the later models, 1960s and up, seem much more likely to still have intact size tag designations, which makes it much easier to know the size you’ll be getting w/o relying on user measurements (if any).

As far as size, I think the 22” should fit you well. I have a 40” chest, 41” fully inhaled, and have plenty of room inside the 22” width coat I found. The limiting factor for me is shoulders, but if you can wear a 38” coat then shoulders should be fine for you too.

If you are expecting delivery soon, did you find it in the UK? Post a link if you want (safe since you already bought it). I imagine Peacoat can figure out a surprising amount from the seller pics.

Thanks Jagg. I got in in the UK from a seller on flea bay, we’d been chatting for a while about it before I decided to go for it. From the pics it’s in remarkable condition but I am a bit worried about the size, it’s a 42, as Mr. Peacoat says, as the P2P measurements are 22” but the shoulders are 20” across according to the images. The previous owner must have been a silverback or something! The only way to find out is to get my hands on it and try it out. The seller has been superb and agreed to accept a return if it is too big. Annoyingly, I’m in London all week and the coat has been delivered already to my house in Norfolk. I won’t see it until Friday…

 

[Aloysius]

Can't see one on that shot... UK suppliers have them on the wearer's left, just above and to the side of the top button. If you hit the magnifier on the link here you'll see it: https://www.stuartslondon.com/schott-nyc-us-740-peacoat-navy-p8125 These are the 740N, which is being sold over here as the 'milspec' option. Maybe they've added a logo for the UK market? (Expensive logo, given how much more these cost over here! ).

Ah I expect the European importer based in France, that also handles the UK market, requested logos on it because Continentals (as well as certain cultures in the UK unfortunately) are very fond of them. At least Schott gave it a more subtle one than the licensed Schott France merchandise has!

With this new EU law mandating that foreign products sold there all be handled by an EU based importer, I expect the situation for us as enthusiasts of niche products is going to get very, very bad. LL announced that they can't sell anymore to EU customers until they find an official import partner there. It will likely affect UK customers too, where the Europe partner also monopolises the UK market.

I expect plenty of American and Asian makers that had been happily selling to European customers direct will now have to go through an intermediary like Schott France, with all the markup, undesirable changes to spec, and so on that it entails.

 

[Edward]

Ah I expect the European importer based in France, that also handles the UK market, requested logos on it because Continentals (as well as certain cultures in the UK unfortunately) are very fond of them. At least Schott gave it a more subtle one than the licensed Schott France merchandise has!

With this new EU law mandating that foreign products sold there all be handled by an EU based importer, I expect the situation for us as enthusiasts of niche products is going to get very, very bad. LL announced that they can't sell anymore to EU customers until they find an official import partner there. It will likely affect UK customers too, where the Europe partner also monopolises the UK market.

I expect plenty of American and Asian makers that had been happily selling to European customers direct will now have to go through an intermediary like Schott France, with all the markup, undesirable changes to spec, and so on that it entails.

It is going to be interesting. I know a lot of smaller businesses here are losing the export trade as they can't manage it. The UK based European distributor for Peison Blues ceased trading in 2022, iirc, due to the challenges already in place.

 

[JAGG]

Thanks Jagg. I got in in the UK from a seller on flea bay, we’d been chatting for a while about it before I decided to go for it. From the pics it’s in remarkable condition but I am a bit worried about the size, it’s a 42, as Mr. Peacoat says, as the P2P measurements are 22” but the shoulders are 20” across according to the images. The previous owner must have been a silverback or something! The only way to find out is to get my hands on it and try it out. The seller has been superb and agreed to accept a return if it is too big. Annoyingly, I’m in London all week and the coat has been delivered already to my house in Norfolk. I won’t see it until Friday…

So what’s the update? How’s the fit?

Peacoat,
A couple recommendations that may make your Peacoat dating and sizing threads even better? Could you put a link to the online military Specification in one of your pinned threads - as it is the spec is hard to find, buried in this massive thread. And the period pic you have of ww1 soldiers wearing peacoats is great. Adding more period photos, showing the way the coats were fitted and worn back in the day, throughout the time your dating thread covers, could be a useful addition for those trying to get a proper fit in size and length. Let us know if you want help finding pics.

 

[Peacoat]

So what’s the update? How’s the fit?

Peacoat,
A couple recommendations that may make your Peacoat dating and sizing threads even better? Could you put a link to the online military Specification in one of your pinned threads - as it is the spec is hard to find, buried in this massive thread. And the period pic you have of ww1 soldiers wearing peacoats is great. Adding more period photos, showing the way the coats were fitted and worn back in the day, throughout the time your dating thread covers, could be a useful addition for those trying to get a proper fit in size and length. Let us know if you want help finding pics.

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "online military Specification" Please elaborate.

Secondly I think the guys in the photo would be upset to know they were referred to as "soldiers." They were sailors in the US Navy. But that's OK as I doubt they will read this post. Plus, they have probably been dead for over 35 years.

 

[Gibby's dog]

So what’s the update? How’s the fit?

Peacoat,
A couple recommendations that may make your Peacoat dating and sizing threads even better? Could you put a link to the online military Specification in one of your pinned threads - as it is the spec is hard to find, buried in this massive thread. And the period pic you have of ww1 soldiers wearing peacoats is great. Adding more period photos, showing the way the coats were fitted and worn back in the day, throughout the time your dating thread covers, could be a useful addition for those trying to get a proper fit in size and length. Let us know if you want help finding pics.

It's enormous! Far too big around the chest, comes nearly to my knees and as the sleeves, well... I've sent it back, the seller was very decent and made it a provision of the sale if it didn't fit. I reckon I need to go two sizes down, which is odd as my chest size is 42" and all my jackets are that size.

So what’s the update? How’s the fit?

Peacoat,
A couple recommendations that may make your Peacoat dating and sizing threads even better? Could you put a link to the online military Specification in one of your pinned threads - as it is the spec is hard to find, buried in this massive thread. And the period pic you have of ww1 soldiers wearing peacoats is great. Adding more period photos, showing the way the coats were fitted and worn back in the day, throughout the time your dating thread covers, could be a useful addition for those trying to get a proper fit in size and length. Let us know if you want help finding pics.

 

[JAGG]

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "online military Specification" Please elaborate.

Secondly I think the guys in the photo would be upset to know they were referred to as "soldiers." They were sailors in the US Navy. But that's OK as I doubt they will read this post. Plus, they have probably been dead for over 35 years.

The spec for how the end product is made and what they need to look like: http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-O/MIL-O-2414H_33708/ If there are earlier specs that would be interesting too.

Whoops on the sailor/soldier, no disrespect intended. Wasn’t sure about it when I wrote it. But how do you feel about including more period pics. Helpful for determining proper sizing and length, as well as how typically worn, I think. I looked for and found several online pics from ww2 and after, you may have access to a lot more?

 

[JAGG]

It's enormous! Far too big around the chest, comes nearly to my knees and as the sleeves, well... I've sent it back, the seller was very decent and made it a provision of the sale if it didn't fit. I reckon I need to go two sizes down, which is odd as my chest size is 42" and all my jackets are that size.

Thats too bad. Is it possible it is a bridgecoat (overcoat) and not a Peacoat? Buttons being moved can also mess with the apparent size. Do you have any other measurements: length, arm length, did you verify chest; or any other pics? If you haven’t put it in the mail yet, take some pics. It may fit me or others here!

And the good news for you is that smaller sizes are more available, if that is really what you need.

 

[Gibby's dog]

Thats too bad. Is it possible it is a bridgecoat (overcoat) and not a Peacoat? Buttons being moved can also mess with the apparent size. Do you have any other measurements: length, arm length, did you verify chest; or any other pics? If you haven’t put it in the mail yet, take some pics. It may fit me or others here!

And the good news for you is that smaller sizes are more available, if that is really what you need.

It's a peacoat all right. I had the seller verify the chest measurements and it was 22" P2P, 25" arm, and 32" to the hem. I reckon I'm going to need 20" P2P, 23" arm, and a 29" hem. I had my wife measure my chest and I'm definately 42"..... Go figure! The seller on Fleabay is UK based and a top bloke, his handle is pawal_1050 if you want to seek him out.

 

[JAGG]

Thanks. It sounds like the same size I found, but I always wonder about the way different people take measurements. And I also wonder whether it was modified somehow to make it so it won’t fit you? I tried but couldn’t find that seller, could you just link to the auction you won to make it easy to find?

 

[Gibby's dog]

Thanks. It sounds like the same size I found, but I always wonder about the way different people take measurements. And I also wonder whether it was modified somehow to make it so it won’t fit you? I tried but couldn’t find that seller, could you just link to the auction you won to make it easy to find?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235839938503

I've measured a few of my coats and work jackets and I agree with you. When I measure P2P I measure from the seam that runs down the side of the garment from the armpit, which effectively is the halfway point. I suspect some people lay the item flat and then measure from the material start to the material end, which will add a couple of inches.