Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[IXL]

The one person over there who actually hit the nail on the head, besides @superfluous, said the following:

"....... Some people have mentioned what Iron Heart is going to do and I believe others have stated not to bring Iron Heart into it... additionally, just because someone feels that IH's response is lackluster considering all thats come to light (although I understand why they'd want to be quiet right now), I don't feel that's a hate campaign, it's just an opinion... which people are free to have and I see no problem unless its slander, which I dont think it is."

Wow! I's sooner take a beating than have to diagram that sentence.

 

[pawineguy]

IH are really not doing themselves any favour by reacting the way they do!

It all comes down to one thing, are they going to carry on doing business with a company that was created in a very dodgy/illegal way and ran by a criminal or are they going to cut the tie and move on?
I have four pairs of IH jeans and two of their jackets, and i would be really annoyed to see them still doing business with AL...

Banning people and closing threads just makes them look like they are hiding something, whether they were part of the problem or not.

It was interesting to read the old thread where his email to a customer indicated that he felt that Aero only wanted the jacket back to **** WL and AL. Of course, at the time not all of the allegations were known, but it goes to show that you never know how these things will play out.

 

[ProteinNerd]

Banning people and closing threads just makes them look like they are hiding something, whether they were part of the problem or not.

It sure does.

 

[wdw]

That was interesting reading some of that old thread. As for that Alex guy, if he'd got his money or jacket back right at the start, as he was due, IH would have come out of it smelling of roses. Instead, it dragged on and on until the whole thing became needlessly antagonistic and just plain odd.

 

[winterland1]

It sure does.

IH didn't delete posts as far as I know. It is possible they might have deleted something that anyone would have deleted. The main offending post is still left up. They could have deleted everything about the situation if they wanted. It's their forum.
Once again I just don't like seeing the animosity as I believe members of both forums have the same type of tastes and attitude. Would get along well sitting at a bar talking about style, clothes, leather and denim.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I re-read the old FL thread up until page number 50-51. I didn't care for Giles actions and responses then or now...but I also read a bartender's statement as to everyone piling on and looking for more blood when not really knowing all the facts that actually transpired between two unities. There is more summary of the trial to come about..and probably future civil proceedings as well, maybe concerning IH. Perhaps the same advice should apply now even though some IH responses seem lacking and even very disappointing.
HD

 

[Superfluous]

Well, @superfluous did manage to get himself banned from the IH forum, as he predicted. What strikes me as odd over there is his rather vague statement that he supplied his info to the police, and that they (he and WL) agreed to "contra" some denim against the jackets. Why not make a stronger statement, along the lines of "I've looked at the accounting and we've paid or made fair exchange for every jacket made for us by Aero." His parsing of words is just adding fuel to the fire. The fact that Aero contacted him about his post on the IH forum, and that they are still monitoring his statements would lead any intelligent person to believe that Aero doesn't feel that the accounts are even.

Interesting read..but I don't really think that the trial narrative and discussion should have been imposed upon their forum.

I think what triggered all of this was their clumsy statement that what was happening with WL had nothing to do with AL. . . . @superfluous is (was) a member of that forum, he didn't just join there yesterday to give them a hard time, and he fell on the sword rather then let their statement stand.

FWIW, I was not banned from the IH forum for what I posted on the IH forum. Rather, I was banned from the IH forum for what I posted here on TFL. Giles explained:

"For those of you who would like to follow what appears to be a hate campaign about me as an individual and Iron Heart as a company, you can go here.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?81945-Aero-Leather-Clothing-trial-update/page34

I have not read the whole thread, but this is the page I was pointed to yesterday that prompted me to make the post above."

The post that Giles cites (in the link) as the basis for banning me consisted of nothing more than a compilation of Giles' posts setting forth Will Lauder's role in the AL/IH relationship. I merely set forth Giles' own posts, verbatim, and shared my opinion that any attempt to separate AL from WL is unavailing. I did not accuse IH or Giles of any wrongdoing. To the contrary, I repeatedly stated that "I have not seen any evidence thus far that you [Giles] or IH engaged in any wrongful conduct." I further noted that "[p]rior to October 2014, when the charges were brought against WL, IH may genuinely have been ignorant about WL's enduring criminal conduct." The absolute worst thing I said about IH is that, based on Lauder's alleged diversion of IH's payments, which has exposed IH to suspicion and possible civil claims, I am surprised that IH has not expressed any condemnation of Lauder's conduct. Apparently, IH seeks to censor, conceal and obstruct even the most benign of contrary opinions. So be it.

Ironically, I was far more critical of Bill Kelso's conduct; yet, Bill Kelso had the backbone and fortitude to allow my contrary opinions to remain on their Facebook page for all to read. Bill Kelso had the courage to allow its readership to view all the facts and opinions, including those strongly critical of Bill Kelso, so that its readership could make informed decisions based on full knowledge of all competing opinions. Bill Kelso did not censor or conceal the facts/opinions, nor curtail or obstruct the discourse, nor shield its readership from the truth (although, in some instances, I believe BK should have removed certain affirmatively offensive statements). Kudos to BK!

 

[Superfluous]

IH are really not doing themselves any favour by reacting the way they do!

It all comes down to one thing, are they going to carry on doing business with a company that was created in a very dodgy/illegal way and ran by a criminal or are they going to cut the tie and move on?
I have four pairs of IH jeans and two of their jackets, and i would be really annoyed to see them still doing business with AL...

Banning people and closing threads just makes them look like they are hiding something, whether they were part of the problem or not.

^ This

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Well I doubt that IH will be able to do business with Aero..so, I would think that AL is practically their only other outlet at this time until something may happen to that business. I must admit that I don't really know much about IH but assume that they need a jacket manufacture as a product source. Therefore..I see them holding on to AL (on a wait and see basis). Guess you can't really blame them(?).

 

[Fanch]

Well things around here are getting "Curiouser and Curiouser." Sloan should be due us his latest epistle any time now ...

 

[Superfluous]

Well I doubt that IH will be able to do business with Aero..so, I would think that AL is practically their only other outlet at this time until something may happen to that business. I must admit that I don't really know much about IH but assume that they need a jacket manufacture as a product source. Therefore..I see them holding on to AL (on a wait and see basis). Guess you can't really blame them(?).

The age-old question: Is it better to do business with the devil, or to do no business at all?

 

[wdw]

Interesting again. I seem to remember talk of "super heavy" horsehide on another forum, as if this was something rare and special.

Now we know it was just steer.

But what about the extra money that was generated by using larger steer hides? Did that go through the Aero books?

And is the cost of the 80 rebuilds part of the £194k?

 

[Sloan1874]

Nope, the rebuild costs were absorbed by Aero.

 

[wdw]

Nope, the rebuild costs were absorbed by Aero.

Presumably to be added to any civil case?

 

[Sloan1874]

I guess. [huh]

 

[Monitor]

"...customers got what they wanted." I... actually believe this somehow made sense to WL.

 

[wdw]

Sloan, your narrative makes no mention of those jackets that were made from a mixture of steer and horse, presumably from any old same-colour scraps that were lying around. I had an HWM made like this which probably cost next to nothing in scrap leather, but I paid full price for. Ken kindly replaced it quickly though.

 

[Sloan1874]

The prosecution didn't raise it, I'm afraid.

 

[Fanch]

I suppose that Aero can now recoup some of their significant cost for replacing the "storse" jackets by re-labeling them as heavy steerhide and listing on their used jackets website? Or keep them for possible civil litigation? Is there any additional testimony regarding JL's statement when she said "she believed it had been to do with Iron Heart."?

 

[Sloan1874]

I've checked back on my notes, and when Julie was asked about the mislabelling, she said that was to do with Iron Heart, but the PF's question was really aimed at finding out the machinists' knowledge of steer and horse.