Holy Grail of vintage suits

[resortes805]

That is an amazing fabric!

 

[resortes805]

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?65551-1935-Holy-Grail-Suit&p=1576871#post1576871

 

[Nick D]

I think the four patch pockets on the waistcoat work well on this, where I didn't think they worked on a suit in the Palm Beach thread. It helps that they harmonise with the four pockets on the jacket, but the flaps also break up the outline of the lower pockets enough that it doesn't look like four big things stuck on covering the fronts.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Silk suit.

Wow! That's one hell of a suit. Do you have more detail shots of the trousers? Is the sleeve cuff folded back or seamed on to a shorter sleeve to simulate a cuff? How about the jacket back?

Nick, I got some answers. The jackets back is plain and ventless. I'm not sure of the cuff treatment … I have asked. Here are a couple detailed pictures of the trousers:

bk

 

[Guttersnipe]

^^^ I love that nubby silk! Is there a specific name / terminology for that finish? ^^^

 

[Baron Kurtz]

While the owner thinks it's Shantung silk, I disagree and would categorise it as Dupioni, because of the more prominent slubbing. But then, he's got it in his hands and I don't! The very prominent slubbing and the size of the slubs is more defining than any other feature, for these two silk types.

 

[cookie]

While the owner thinks it's Shantung silk, I disagree and would categorise it as Dupioni, because of the more prominent slubbing. But then, he's got it in his hands and I don't! The very prominent slubbing and the size of the slubs is more defining than any other feature, for these two silk types.

Baron I suspect you are right. I have a Duppioni NOS suit from the late 60s early 70s (almost modern in fact) that has that sort of slubbing. Some Duppioni is super slubbed like the suit Michael Corleone wore in Godfather 2. But mine is like that cream one. It is a 40 Reg too and for sale if anyone is interested

 

[Burma Schave]

I agree with Baron and Cookie, it looks like Dupioni silk to me.

Here's a pretty good description I found of the stuff:

"Sometimes known as dupion or douppioni, silk dupioni is created with the threads from two different silk worms. When two worms spin their cocoons close together, the fibers get tangled up; these naturally tangled fibers are then used together to make the silk thread. The thread is rougher than regular silk, and contains bumps and irregularities where the fibers from the two cocoons are combined. Silk dupioni takes dye well and is usually easy to sew.

Silk dupioni has an advantage over some other types of silks, in that it tends to resist wrinkles, which helps to enhance the usability of the finished fabric. In addition, silk dupioni also has a tendency to take creases very well, which can give the final product a crisp and formal appearance. As an added bonus, the fabric is totally reversible, so it is perfectly acceptable for both sides of the material to be visible.

At the same time, silk dupioni does have a couple of drawbacks. The material has almost no stretching ability, which means that using this fabric requires the need to be very exact in the measurements before cutting out any pattern. It is also naturally irregular in texture, and the edges may unravel."

 

[Guttersnipe]

Thanks for the information gents. A while ago I came across an article on a gentlemen's style blog which featured a bespoke summer suit made by Oxxford from this same silk weave. It was pretty spectacular!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

How about the jacket back?

Finally! The cuff is made with an additional piece of fabric added to the end of the arm to simulate a cuff.

 

[reetpleat]

Resortes, I am shocked to be taking exception at your post, as I know your expertise. But Macintosh did custom suits. Did you perhaps mean "wouldn't" Or do you know something I don't? I looked up the old post I posted on the Macintosh suit years ago. Oddly, for some reason I never saw your last post on the popularity with Philipino men. I was gratified to find that my theory might be correct. Thanks for the info on that one.

 

[reetpleat]

Again, can't believe I am disagreeing with you. But while I would not say this is a style that would be worn by a cowboy oar ranch hand, I would not at all say urban hipster. This, to me would be a country or weekend sporting suit of a wealthy well dressed guy. Especially with the leather buttons, as well as the patch pockets, belt back, etc. While I do think that some hipsters, especially black, would sometimes emulate this wealthy sporting look, it is most likely, in my opinion, that this suit belonged to a wealthy or at least middle class urbanite for weekends in the country.

But on second thought, after taking a closer look at the pics, I would speculate that it is actually more likely a result of the casual California atmosphere of the 30s and 40s, in which a lot of these country styles became more commonly worn in town. YYou see it a lot in shots of movies being made. The crew did not need to wear fancy suits, instead, opting for more casual, but somewhat professional styles. Movie stars and execs too, I guess. this is the kind of thing that I would expect to seen worn in Hollywood in the daytime by film folks.

 

[reetpleat]

Okay, late to the party, but this suit is quite amazing, and yes, a holy grail. To take a little exception to the Barron, I would say a holy grail is not just rare, but sought after. Remember, the Holy grail was quested after by many for many years. So it is an apt metaphor. Now, of course, to a vintage denim collector, or a beanie baby collector, this is not a holy grail. But to an aficionado of sporty, California sportswear (perhaps, makes me think of studio types, cameraman or director or exec) flashy stuff like this, this is indeed a holy grail, in that it is very rare, (maybe be only one in the world) and is the type of thing (has many elements) that are very sought after for many years. so, anyone who says this is not a holy grail is flat our wrong. Of course, it may not be their holy grail. Their holy grail might be a Bob Dylan poster from a 1965 show. But it is indeed a holy grail.

I suppose, in the interests of good discussion, it is not inappropriate for someone to comment that this is not their holy grail. But it is a shame that they outnumber those who might be saying OMG, yes, THAT is my holy grail and don't let me catch you alone in a dark alley with that suit or you might not have it tomorrow.

 

[resortes805]

Resortes, I am shocked to be taking exception at your post, as I know your expertise. But Macintosh did custom suits. Did you perhaps mean "wouldn't" Or do you know something I don't? I looked up the old post I posted on the Macintosh suit years ago. Oddly, for some reason I never saw your last post on the popularity with Philipino men. I was gratified to find that my theory might be correct. Thanks for the info on that one.

I've always assumed Macintosh did tailored RTW suits; I stand corrected!

 

[reetpleat]

I don't really know for sure, but always was under the impression they did custom. I think the advert I saw in the union newspaper, as I recall, was concerning how measurements could be taken by an agent who would be in the area. Maybe they did both, or maybe they did custom only.Obviously, for the studios they would have been custom, I assume.

 

[Guttersnipe]

I've always assumed Macintosh did tailored RTW suits; I stand corrected!

I'm fairly sure Macintosh offered a full range of services including ready-to-wear, made-to-order, and full custom akin to bespoke.

An interesting side discussion would probably be to what degree vintage standards paralleled modern notions of RTW/OTR, MTM, and bespoke. I suspect what many modern makers pass off as made-to-measure today, was more akin to the standard special order process of yesteryear.

 

[DamianM]

reference to the earlier suit on the thread
something about saddle pockets

 

[resortes805]

reference to the earlier suit on the thread
something about saddle pockets

Wow, great suit!

Here's a holy grail of pre-1950s fleck...

 

[DamianM]

1930s "speckled tweed for ****** days" jacket.
Imagine a full suit!!
That is one of my holy grail Suits, in this case, jacket.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Nice. I have one just like it. But with an additional Flecked red windowpane check.

[EDIT] Mine has maybe a little less flocking.