Show us your British suits

[Marc Chevalier]

Good to have you back Ben

Hear, hear! It's been far too long.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, Ben's right, in my experience. Especially German suits. Very, very different, and easily distinguishable. French is closer to British.

I've long had an idea that European tailoring falls into 2 schools - you have the English school that dominates in Britain (obviously), France, Belgium and similar North-Western European countries, and the German school that dominates in southern - Mediterranean - Europe (before the Italian fashion revolution of the 1950s) and Northern and Eastern Europe.

It's a bit like watching the first 20 seconds of an early 1950s film - you can probably tell which country it was made in if you know enough about film.

bk

 

[Two Types]

This has now gone to my tailor and I just wondered has anyone any ideas as to what colour of waistcoat would suit it? I am pretty sure it will need one as the trousers are quite high waisted.

Since the suit is from the 1950s, I would be tempted towards the popular style of the period that was to wear a very pale grey waistcoat. It works with both formal and more casual suits. Here are some examples from British films of the period:

And here is my attempt to recreate the look by teaming a pale waistcoat with a Prince of Wales check:

If not, then a nice deep green or a mustard. Maybe a claret? There are so many choices. In the ideal world you would get one of each and rotate them according to your moods or the situation.

Good luck.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Yes, Ben's right, in my experience. Especially German suits. Very, very different, and easily distinguishable.

Fascinating and exciting! I would love to be able to have dinner with you and Ben ... I'd enjoy receiving an education on the differences between German and British suits.

 

[Guttersnipe]

The little old tailor I go to for alteration work has told me German tailoring has distinctive hallmarks too. He was actually originally apprenticed to a German ex-pat and has identified suits I've brought in as being German without me telling him so or looking at labels.

 

[esteban68]

I think we had the same idea TT, I bought a 'mustard'/ gold it arrived yesterday so can't try it out with suit yet...I already have a light/mid grey one that was my grandfathers however it's a bit tight and worn in places moths etc(but the buttons are great)...I also did think olive green(to help bring out the fine green check in the suit) and did bid on one but lost it for the sake of a £1!.
I guess I'll get a bigger grey one and a green one then as you say I can mix and match.

 

[Hal]

Here's my newly aquired Guards 'thornproof' c1950?

This could be from the 1950s, but is more likely 1960s or even 1970s; that firm lived and operated in an agreeable time-warp for quite a long period in a similar manner to that of G.A.Dunn & Co. The suits are well made, and the style is the one I like the most (heresy, I know, to those of you who prefer "the bold look"). Your ideas for a waistcoat to go with it seem good to me.
And, as Paddy says, it's great to have Ben - and herringbonekid - posting again.

 

[herringbonekid]

A few details you won't find on 30s - 40s English suits*


typical Italian way of finishing the lining around the inside pocket:

typical English way:

German brace (suspender) extenders:

German scalloped pocket flaps:

typical English pocket flap:

German / northern European 'upside down' scalloped pocket flap (actually a welted pocket):

German double jetted side pocket:

* there are always exceptions.

p.s. also, i do not wish to imply that ALL German or French suits have these features, only that they are not usually found on English suits.

p.p.s. for anyone who wants to know more about internal suit construction i recommend this blog: http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/
the owner takes apart tailor made suits (modern not vintage, but much hasn't changed) and describes in detail the working methods.

 

[herringbonekid]

French waistband tape:

German SMALL watch pockets AND double-jetted side pockets:

English WIDE watch pockets and standard on-seam side pockets:

(notice also that on the German trousers above the rear seam allowance's raw edge is taped. in English suit trousers it is usually overlocked or sometimes simply cut with pinking shears)


...

 

[Two Types]

I bought a 'mustard'/ gold it arrived yesterday so can't try it out with suit yet...

Was this the mustard waistcoat that just sold on 'Savvy Row'?

 

[esteban68]

No it was from a British based vintage clothing shop over the net and I seriously cannot remember who it was! it's a Gurteen and maybe not too vintage(but definately in style but with a nice understated back) but almost if not mint and unworn.
Price was pretty good and IIRC less than £20 inc p&p.

 

[esteban68]

perhaps we could have a British 'section'on FL?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Note the Italian pocket below. It is, as HBK says, typical - I think I pointed you at this suit? - and is, I argue, derived from the german way of doing things. The thing to notice is the "height" of the pocket. German, and German-influenced jacket inner pockets are 1) on both sides (the Italian one here is clearly on the left) where British will mostly only be on the right with maybe a small ticket/key pocket low down on the left and 2) set right up into the armhole (you can see the arm lining on this one) where the British pockets are generally set much lower.

A few details you won't find on 30s - 40s English suits*


typical Italian way of finishing the lining around the inside pocket:

typical English way:

 

[herringbonekid]

I think I pointed you at this suit? - and is, I argue, derived from the german way of doing things.

i think you did... i hadn't considered the height of the pocket as a distinguishing feature, i was talking only about the way it is lined around the pocket opening, but i'd be interested to know why you think the German's invented it before the Italians.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

No good reason, actually. It's very possible that the influence went the other way. It's very difficult to see either culture - or British culture, for that matter - deferring to the input of others, to be honest …

However, the "height" of the inner pockets is one of the big divisions I see in European suits, with countries tending to fall into one (low British) group or the other (high German).



bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

By the way, hbk, what's your view on watch pockets on British 1930s trousers, or European trousers in general? Ubiquitous?

I think I have more British 1930s suits without watch pockets than with … I have a few Burton's catalogues from the middle 30s that my memory tells me (don't take it as Gospel yet 'til I've checked) were offering such pockets as "optional" features.

bk

 

[Lexybeast]

Here's a question regarding British suits- when did twin vents on the rear of a jacket start to appear? Did it even start with British suits?

 

[herringbonekid]

By the way, hbk, what's your view on watch pockets on British 1930s trousers, or European trousers in general? Ubiquitous?

i've just done a count on the 1930s-1940s Brit trousers and the results are surprising:

with flapped watch pocket: 3

without watch pocket at all: 11

with flap-less watch pocket: 0

those with the flap are all the same width and shape, as shown on the previous page. never the narrower, squarer European version.

 

[herringbonekid]

Here's a question regarding British suits- when did twin vents on the rear of a jacket start to appear? Did it even start with British suits?

vents are a bit out of my area of interest as they almost never appear on 30s and 40s Brit jackets, but i think i can safley say that the single vent started appearing in the late 50s (think: the 'continental' influence), followed by double vents in the late 60s (think: the Dandy-mod influence).

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Not a surprising result at all, hbk. It certainly fits with my own similar survey.

Double vents have been around for a long time. Hacking jackets almost always have short double vents or a long central single vent. Vents on suit jackets, now, those are quite rare. I don't think I own an older British suit jacket with any vents.

bk