Tailors in London

[LondonLuke]

Aside from Saville Row, has anyone here had any experience with tailors over here? I'm mainly interested in the quality/price ratio

 

[benstephens]

I have used Mackensies of Piccadilly. Absolutely fantastic, prices are what you would expect from the West End. They will listen, and are interested in projects out of the norm and will source the cloth as well. Quality is very good.

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[AllaboutEve]

Charlie Allen in Islington London is an amazing tailor with the most incredible range of suiting fabric. Bespoke tailoring, from shirts through to coats. He is based in Upper Street Islington, but he also has a ready made range in John Lewis.
He's been a customer where I work for many years now and is a really nice guy.

Well worth checking it out.

 

[LondonLuke]

Thanks for the advice. Hate the old saying, "If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it", but, well...?

 

[Edward]

It would be handy to have a guide price, yeah.... what would they charge for, say.... one pair of trousers, one sb jacket, one db jacket?

 

[Creeping Past]

From preliminary inquiries with a couple of tailors in London, somewhere near £500/£600 for a jacket and £800-ish for a 2 pc suit, depending on fabric.

 

[Edward]

Thanks. I'll be saving a while yet for that!

 

[LondonLuke]

Little search on the internet today turned up these fellows

http://www.kingandallen.co.uk/


Sounds too good to be true, anyone have any experience of them?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Certainly does sound too good to be true.

bk

 

[Max Flash]

Little search on the internet today turned up these fellows

http://www.kingandallen.co.uk/


Sounds too good to be true, anyone have any experience of them?

They are made-to-measure, not bespoke. You get measured up, they make the suit to your size but from a pattern, and you have one fitting to make any alterations. This is different from true bespoke, which can include any number of fittings.

There are a few companies doing this in London. I have not used King and Allen but have used a company called Dress2Kill (they have a website, which I am sure Google can assist with). The suit from D2K was good and you can choose from a wide range of wools, linings, styles, etc. They were very friendly and a 2 pc cost approx. £500 as I recall (although this was about 3 years ago). I would use them again if buying a suit in London.

Another place I have had a linen suit made is Apsley Tailors in Pall Mall (http://www.apsleytailors.com/). 2 pc cost £500 (last year) and is made on site by English-trained tailors from Hong Kong.

Also, you might try Addison and Steele. I have only had shirts from them and they were fine.

 

[Edward]

King and Allen.... weren't they the folks who a couple of months ago successfully defended their right to use the term 'bespoke' against a court challenge by a group of Saville Row tailors?

I've looked at their site, and I was tempted. I was also tempted by the "A Suit That Fits" folks.... they have some db styles that look really nice on the site, as well as a great range of options to choose from. The thing that always gives me pause is what the cut of the trousers will be like.... i.e. are they available in a 30s/40s wide leg style. I really must go into their shops and ask them about that at some point.

M2M appeals to me as a way of getting a better fit than off the rack - also a lot of off the rack stuff (unless you go the Marksies / Next route where the jackets and trousers can be bought separately) you don't have the option to add in an extra pair of trousers, and typically a waistcoat is not available. If I could be sure of getting a pair of 30s or 40s fit trousers with a high waist and wide leg, I'd definitely give them a go. I did wonder whether if I supplied the trouser pattern they'#d make them up with the suit, but I'm certain that would be a nono - part of the way they'll keep it all affordable will be by sticking to a range of pre-set options.

I'd adore to go true bespoke on everything, but it's realistically well out of my price range.

 

[LondonLuke]

I think I'm going to try out King & Allen. I need a new suit anyway, and if it isn't that great, it's only a bit more than a decent OTR suit would cost anyway


Edward, what was that lawsuit about?

 

[Max Flash]

Edward, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the lawsuit revolved around the central premise that the term "bespoke" could only be used to describe a true bespoke suit (as the Savile Row tailors argued) or whether it could be used to describe a M2M suit (as K&A argued). The ruling was that bespoke could be used to describe a M2M suit.

Therefore, when K&A say you are getting a bespoke suit, they in fact mean you are getting a M2M.

 

[LondonLuke]

As long as it's a nice suit, I don't mind if it's M2M or true Bespoke. Most people can't tell the difference when they see someone wearing one, meaning the only difference to non-satorial-experts is the price

 

[Max Flash]

You can tell the difference when you're wearing it. The fabric on a true bespoke "presses" equally across the shoulder, cinches perfectly at the waist on the jacket, and fits around the waist on the trousers. The hems kick just so and never ride up too far, even when sitting.

However, you are right, very few will notice these things. The important thing for me is being able to choose the wool and the lining - that way I end up with a truly unique (hence bespoke) item. I like to dress well for work and show my individuality even in a conservative environment. This can be achieved just as easily with M2M as with bespoke, and at a fraction of the price!

 

[Edward]

Edward, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the lawsuit revolved around the central premise that the term "bespoke" could only be used to describe a true bespoke suit (as the Savile Row tailors argued) or whether it could be used to describe a M2M suit (as K&A argued). The ruling was that bespoke could be used to describe a M2M suit.

Therefore, when K&A say you are getting a bespoke suit, they in fact mean you are getting a M2M.

That's exactly it. I don't recall all of the details of the judgement now (I must read it in full at some point), but yes essentially the court ruled that a made to measure suit where you could choose what you wante from a range of options/ fabrics / colours and it was made to your own measurements was sufficient to qualify as bespoke.

I agree with you that the difference would be apparent.... it becomes a matter of personal opinion, of course, whether the true bespoke suit at GBP1500 for two pieces is worth the extra £££ over a well cut M2M at a third of that. It'd be nice to be sufficiently well off to be in the position of making such a choice! lol

Do let us know how you get on with King and Allen.

 

[LondonLuke]

However, you are right, very few will notice these things. The important thing for me is being able to choose the wool and the lining - that way I end up with a truly unique (hence bespoke) item. I like to dress well for work and show my individuality even in a conservative environment. This can be achieved just as easily with M2M as with bespoke, and at a fraction of the price!

That was the point I was trying to get across.

K&A don't have any fitting dates in the immediate future, so I'm gonna have to wait out. I phoned them up, and they say that you can customise it pretty much as much as you want. pockets, vents, high/low armholes, colour, pattern, and they even have heavy wool for that classic styling! silk for linings, etc etc. 3 fittings including in the price, and I think the slightly less perfect fit is worth the £2000 saving for a Saville Row suit. Of course, when I'm a CEO or something, I'll be at Saville Row anyway, purely for the name



EDIT
Oh and yay, I'm now familiar face

 

[Kt Templar]

I'm tempted to try a King and Allen. I'm close enough for a lunchtime visit to their main shop. So am interested to see how you get on.

 

[LondonLuke]

KT, I won't be going for a while (leaving London next month), aiming for a suit from there by next summer, so if you try them out, I'd appreciate the feedback!

 

[Edward]

Just an additional.... talking to a barrister friend after Church yesterday, he happened to mention that he has just recently had a suit made by King and Allen. This is his first non- off-the-peg suit, and he is very pleased with the jump in fit / quality as compared to the relatively small upcharge. Not a vintage guy, so I don't know what they're like for getting the authentic 30s / 40s fit, but he was certainly very pleased with the service and the suit. Can't comment directly myself as I've not seen it, but I thought that at least it was interesting to hear from someone who was plased with the quality of their suit....