Lambeth Walk?

[Fleur De Guerre]

I learned the Lambeth Walk at a dance at Christmas! It's fun!

 

[Fleur De Guerre]

Oh no! It wasn't the Lambeth Walk, it was the Palais Glide! Which I realised after I just found this video of both!

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=11125

 

[benstephens]

Trust us, dear lady, no self respecting person from South of the Thames* would have said, 'Hey!' at the time. It should, of course, be spelled 'Oi!'. Is this important? The political and socialogical significance of this word is enormous and a whole book could be written about it. As well as slogans from the Spanish Civil War the cry features in reports of the Battle of Cable Street in October 1936. It renewed its significance in the 1960s as a shout (and battlecry) of working class white skinheads and in the 1970s became the name of a radical movement in itself that warrants a Wikipedia entry although the wiki typically neglects its earlier working class political derivation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi!

* Despite what you may hear, with respect, people from 'down Lambeth way' are not 'Cockneys', although Central Londoners had more in common with East Enders than did the 'toffs' in the West End.

Yes, I think Lambeth is out of the range of Bow Bells, but it would be close I would imagine. Remember, all East Enders are Cockneys and not all cockneys are East Enders. My Grandma is a true Bow Bell Cockney, although my father was born during the 1941-1961 period when no bells were in the church.

I use Oy as I use Serjeant as I feel oi is the newer spelling. I think its origins are yiddish being Oy, and this was how it was introduced into our language with the imigrants to the East end of London at the turn of the 20th century. I may be wrong though?

Kindest

Ben

 

[benstephens]

This is interesting

http://partleton.co.uk/LambethWalk.htm

 

[benstephens]

I always thought it was from the yiddish, but this source says

oi
1962, vulgar or working class pronunciation of hoy a call or shout to attract attention.

I suppose it may be of Nautical origin which would also make sense?

Or is it a corruption of

oyez
c.1425, from Anglo-Fr. oyez "hear ye!" (c.1286, O.Fr. oiez), a cry uttered (usually thrice) to call attention, from L. subjunctive audiatis, pl. imperative of audire "to hear" (Anglo-Fr. oier; see audience).

Kindest

Ben

 

[H.Johnson]

Ben,

Interesting! I think you might be correct with this derivation, and therefore the spelling 'oy' is the most likely. It's impossible to know how a cry is spelled, really. As an exclamation it certainly was associated with the working class East End, as you say. The earliest scholarly work I have seen that looks into the signifance of the word is by a bloke from Warwick University, but he focuses on the 1950s and its use among Teddy Boys. I think he spells it 'oi', but as you say that's later than the origin of the lyrics that go along with the dance.

I think we should avoid assuming that the dance actually originated in Lambeth - I've always understood it to be a sort of parody of the 'cocky' mannerisms of Londoners. There was a big fashion for inventing novelty sequence dances in the inter-war period, of which this is an excellent example.

I use Oy as I use Serjeant as I feel oi is the newer spelling. I think its origins are yiddish being Oy, and this was how it was introduced into our language with the imigrants to the East end of London at the turn of the 20th century. I may be wrong though?

Kindest

Ben

 

[benstephens]

I was under the impression it came from Me and My girl, and indeed is just a parody of all things that were seen good about the ever cheerfull Londoner.

I find entymology rather interesting, a lot of these words can be a mystery, we have already seen evidence to show it could be a number of different thing.

I wonder if I have a song sheet from the 30s and what that says, may see the use of oi quite early on.

Kindest

Ben

 

[H.Johnson]

Ben,

Thanks for this. The 'Lambeth Pottery' in the High Street was, of course, Doulton, which moved to Stoke-on-Trent as Royal Doulton and employed my lady wife for many years.

I note your suggestion of the maritime 'ahoy' as a (very) credible source. Remember that the Port of London was one of the busiest harbours in the world at the time. I'm sure the hail and warning 'ahoy (ship)' would have been heard frequently.

The site refers to the 'thumbs-up' gesture as a 'Cockney salute'. That's interesting. I wonder where that comes from?

This is interesting

http://partleton.co.uk/LambethWalk.htm

 

[Lone_Ranger]

"In the movie The Longest Day from 1962 about the Allied invasion of Normandy in June 1944 this song is sung by the squadron of Major John Howard in a glider on its way to capture Pegasus Bridge." < that's where I remember it from. Isn't Wikipedia great?

 

[H.Johnson]

Yes it is (and it almost certainly was in reality). As well as the LW's popularity in Me and My Girl in the late 30s it had a renewed popularity before 'D-Day' in the form of a comic 'short' of Germany's WWII-era leadership troop parades edited to fit the LW music that was popular as a 'filler' in cinemas in the UK. Ben's link above has a sample video.

 

[shindeco]

Here's the front cover for those who might be interested (oh! and in the score, it's written as "hey").

 

[BellyTank]

Lambeth Walk, London, SE1.
When I worked in London, I had a customer in Lambeth Walk.

Don't know anything about the dance, though.


B
T

 

[H.Johnson]

But did he say, 'Hey!' or 'Oi!' or 'Oy!'?

We need to know!

 

[BellyTank]

He said Salam.


B
T

 

[H.Johnson]

That doesn't fit the metre - 'Doing the Lambeth Walk - salam!'

 

[BellyTank]

That doesn't fit the metre - 'Doing the Lambeth Walk - salam!'

Just imagine what it would have become, if the Germans conquered...


B
T

 

[clevispin]

Lambeth Walk:

Backstroke across Tiber. Maintain stiff upper lip.

m